Purchased a car, Moneybarn threatening to repossess due to previous owner's outstanding finance

vikingaero

Uxb wrote: »

So why does anyone conduct HPI checks then?
Why does the HPI check system exist
What is the point of them?
You see, it would seem more sensible to NOT conduct any HPI check ever under any circumstances as you can then say you bought the vehicle without one which amounted to good faith and have good legal title.

Because the HPI check would flag the finance. And you would say to the seller: "What's going on?" And the seller might say: "Oh, I received the settlement confirmation from the finance company today and HPI hasn't updated."


It's bit different if you are spending £30k on a car compared to a car worth £1,000. Would you risk £30k for the sake of a £20 check?

Keep_pedalling

Uxb wrote: »

So why does anyone conduct HPI checks then?
Why does the HPI check system exist
What is the point of them?
You see, it would seem more sensible to NOT conduct any HPI check ever under any circumstances as you can then say you bought the vehicle without one which amounted to good faith and have good legal title.

To avoid the sort of hassle the OP is now faced with, or having to prove in court it was purchased in good faith, as in the example in Wesleyads link above.

wesleyad

Uxb wrote: »

So why does anyone conduct HPI checks then?
Why does the HPI check system exist
What is the point of them?
You see, it would seem more sensible to NOT conduct any HPI check ever under any circumstances as you can then say you bought the vehicle without one which amounted to good faith and have good legal title.

It's to save the massive amount of stress the OP must be going through, possibly now having to go to court, multiple phone calls, reading up on the relevant law, ;letters to and from the company, etc etc. So the HPI check is an insurance against lost time effectively.

Secondly a good HPI check only has car finance as one of many things looked at. They will look for write offs (possibly hiding cat C/D status), mileage (check for clocking), check VIN, clones, imports. Loads of things that could be useful. Really the finance part of it takes a back seat to many of these.

what707

Uxb wrote: »

So why does anyone conduct HPI checks then?
Why does the HPI check system exist What is the point of them?
You see, it would seem more sensible to NOT conduct any HPI check ever under any circumstances as you can then say you bought the vehicle without one which amounted to good faith and have good legal title.

If I had known about HPI checks, trust me, I would have done it. This is an awful situation to be in. It's not like we got some great deal and now just have to defend ourselves in court to keep it--we bought an old car at market value and will probably have to go to court over it with no guarantees that we will win or be able to recoup our loss.

If we're talking about things that would be more sensible -- the actual owner could be listed on the logbook. The fact that the true ownership of a vehicle is essentially hidden from public view is ridiculous. HPI checks could be mandatory as part of a sale. My landlord was required to provide me with a rundown of the electricity performance as part of our rental agreement, but someone selling a car isn't required to provide proof of ownership?

From reading about this, which is all I've done for the past four days, it sounds like a huge percentage of cars sold are still under finance obligation. Fiance companies maintaining "hidden" ownership over vehicles that are easily sold to unsuspecting victims seems to be a recipe for disaster.

Stoke

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

I'll just say one word 'GUMTREE' !! and nobody thought it suspicious?

My own opinion on the law is that the lender has ownership of the car and that nobody has a right to sell until the HP is repaid.
I think that the OP has been stitched up and will find it difficult to keep the car.

I've sold two cars on Gumtree and bought one. Never had an issue.

Stoke

DoaM wrote: »

This was a private sale. There are two key elements that apply to private sales:

1. The goods are as described
2. The seller has good title to sell the goods

It seems that point 2 is the issue - as there was outstanding finance then the seller did not have good title. (Registered Keeper <> Owner)

Whether the feedback from the OP's insurer has any weight I've no idea.

If the seller can't sell the goods because of outstanding finance, then surely the onus is on them to ensure they are legally entitled too, either by clearing the remaining debt or by not selling at all?

By the way, great signature. Great song on a great album.

DoaM

It seems the "HP Act" supersedes this basic tenet of consumer law.

PS - signature = forum name

what707

So we wrote to them and gave all of the evidence of the sale, and got a letter back today that said:

Under normal circumstances if you had bought the vehicle from our customer you could be afforded the protection of Section 27 of the Hire Purchase Act 1964 and thus be treated as an innocent purchaser of the above vehicle providing the following criteria were satisfied:

1. The the person buying the vehicle must be a private purchaser .e not a motor trader and to have bought it from our customer.
2. That you must have had no notice of the Conditional Sale agreement.
3. The purchase must have been in good faith.

All three points would have to be satisfied in full in order for you to have clear title to the vehicle and thus be the owner of the vehicle using Section 27 of the Hire Purchase Act.

However in this case you did not buy the vehicle from our customer but from Mr X. It would be for Mr X to show that Section 27 applies to his purchase. Mr X has not satisfied all the criteria in that he has not proved that he bought the vehicle from our customer and/or that he had the right to sell the vehicle. For this reason Section 27 of the Hire Purchase Act 1964 does not apply to your claim of ownership.

Your claim of ownership of the vehicle is therefore rejected and we will be appointing agents to collect it from you.

Mr X is, of course, the guy we bought it from.

neilmcl

Time for professional advice from a solicitor I think.

what707

neilmcl wrote: »

Time for professional advice from a solicitor I think.

Any idea how much we should expect to pay for that?