Missed appeals deadline

DrBeardface

Hi,

I received a parking charge notice whilst I was away saying that I had parked and left the site, and by the time I actually got to it the appeals deadline had passed. As such the parking company refused to consider my appeal, and also refused to give me a POPLA code. The charge has now gone to debt collection and the company is telling me that my only options are to pay it or risk it going to court. The appeal is based on the fact that there are two retail parks right next to each other, and it is not clear which carpark is for which shops.

Is there any other appeals process? If not, what evidence would I need to take to court to show the confusion?

Thanks for your help!!

Redx

nope , no other appeal process , just a landowner complaint and get it cancelled

for court, ideally you need pictures of signage and markings on the ground , a video might help, like dashcam footage , and maybe the land registry docs too

they are correct in that its pay or possibly be taken to court, at your local county court, that was always on the cards from day one

we believe the latter is appropriate , because the defendant may win on a technicality, or they may leave it over 6 years in which case its too late for an MCOL


post #4 of the NEWBIES sticky thread tells you to ignore the debt collectors


also this recent thread explains it all


https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5885528/debt-recovery-plus-demand-for-payment-unpaid-pcn-what-are-my-options

Loadsofchildren123

Dear Sirs,


I note your refusal to consider an appeal, in spite of the fact that I told you I was away at the time notice of the parking charge was received.


You are obliged under the pre-action Protocol and Practice Direction to consider forms of ADR at every stage. Your appeals process is a form of ADR. Arbitrarily denying that opportunity because I was away is a blatant breach of everything the Protocol and Practice Direction is designed to achieve. Your conduct will be drawn to the court's attention in due course, should this matter proceed. In the meantime, I enclose an appeal and ask that you exercise some sense and discretion in extending the appeal deadline.


Yours faithfully




If they say no, it's not the end of the world. Their internal appeal will find against you, but your POPLA appeal may have worked.


Can you tell us more about the circumstances? Did you identify the driver in your original correspondence? Please say no!!!!! If you did, we need to know because it may change things drastically.


If driver hasn't been id'd, DON'T id them now and make it clear you are corresponding as the Registered Keeper of the car.


Which PPC is it? Did the driver receive a windscreen ticket or a notice through the post?


If a windscreen ticket, when was the Notice to Keeper sent? It must be between days 29 and 56 after the original windscreen ticket. If a postal notice, it must be sent within 14 days of the parking.


If you have not identified the driver, these time limits are crucial because you can only be held liable as registered keeper if they kept to the strict time limits above.


The terms of your appeal will depend on whether or not you have id'd the driver or not, and whether the strict time limits have been observed.


These are technical points which are killer points and extend beyond the confusing signage/demarcation of two car park points which you already have.


Print off a google earth photo of the area, mark on it the car parks and where your car was parked. Mark on it where any signs are, relative to your car. Mark on it how the two different areas are demarcated. Is there anything at all to distinguish them as separate? Is it possible to drive into one, and then drive into the other without realising? Is there any signage at all at the crossover point to tell you that you are passing from one to the other or that the two parts are under separate control?


There's a similar thread to yours from a while back, I'll link it for you.

Loadsofchildren123

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5640401/1-big-car-park-2-landowners-valid-parking-ticket-but-parking-charge-issued&highlight=

DrBeardface

Thank you for your replies. I have answered the points you raised below.

Which PPC is it? Did the driver receive a windscreen ticket or a notice through the post?

It's Premier Park Ltd. And the driver recieved no notification on the windscreen, the notification was sent straight to the registered keeper 4 days after the incident.

Can you tell us more about the circumstances? Did you identify the driver in your original correspondence?

The driver has not been identified, although in communication with the debt collection agency I have been informed that it is irrelevant who the driver is, since transfer of liability is only possible in the first 28 days, and as such the registered keeper is liable.

If they say no, it's not the end of the world. Their internal appeal will find against you, but your POPLA appeal may have worked.

It's not that they are finding against me in their appeals process, they are refusing to consider an appeal, and as such refusing to give me a POPLA code. IT was my understanding that I am unable to appeal through POPLA unless the PPC give me a code. Which I must admit seems a little suspect, seeing as an obudsman service should really be open to all, regardless of circumstances.

Is there anything at all to distinguish them as separate? Is it possible to drive into one, and then drive into the other without realising? Is there any signage at all at the crossover point to tell you that you are passing from one to the other or that the two parts are under separate control?

I went by there today and had another look at the signage. As it happens there does appear to be a lot of signage that the driver missed on the day, assuming of course that they haven't added more signs since the incident. It's difficult to say what would be considered appropriate signage in this case.



However the one sign that they have photographed for their evidence does NOT include the stores for which this carpark is to be used. This is the only sign that has the value of the "fine" on it, the others just say "see other signage". This sign I would not be surprised if it were deemed illegible from a car, which I believe is one of the relevant tests in this sort of thing.



You can drive or walk from one into the other without any signs saying that you are entering the other one. Both retail parks are serviced by the same road down from the main road, and the names of both parks are on signs at the end of this road.


Thanks for your help!!

KeithP

DrBeardface wrote: »

The driver has not been identified, although in communication with the debt collection agency I have been informed that it is irrelevant who the driver is, since transfer of liability is only possible in the first 28 days, and as such the registered keeper is liable.

That statement by a debt collector is designed to get you to tell them who the driver was in the mistaken belief that giving them that information will not do you, nor the driver, any harm.

It is for this very reason that all the advice on here is never to contact debt collectors.

Coupon-mad

Sit tight. STOP contacting stupid debt collectors. NO-ONE replies to or rings them.

What more can we add that's not already said in every other Premier Park debt collectors thread? Those are the search terms to use (please spare us as it's already here umpteen times over on other PP threads).