Two PCNs over 2 days - Help!

asdf12345

Hi,

I would like some advice with regards to my situation:

I live in a block of flats whose car park is "managed" by UK Car Park Management (UK CPM). I stupidly left my car parked slightly outside the parking bay between 17/08 - 18/08. When I returned to my car on 19/08 I found "PCN No. 1" on my windscreen with incident dated 18/08. Unfortunately I then proceeded and paid PCN 1 (didn't come across this forum until afterwards). Fast forwards a few days later I received "PCN No. 2" as a letter through the post with incident dated 17/08 which I now want to fight. I've read the Newbies guidance but I'm not sure what to base my first stage appeal defence on, do I:

1. Use the standard one size fits all blue template and go with not naming the driver - is this strategy still effective given that I've paid/hence admitted liability to PCN 1? Also couldn't the PPC argue that if I admitted liability to PCN 1 I must be the driver for PCN 2 as from the photos it doesn't look like the car has moved between getting PCN 1 and PCN 2?
OR
2. Use the argument that my car hadn't moved between 17/08 - 18/08 so this is one continuous "offence" and therefore only 1 PCN should be issued which I've already paid?

Also it's a bit suspicious that PCN 2 arrived after I had paid PCN 1, could the PPC be trying it on? The photos they took for PCN 2 looks similar to that in PCN 1 - obviously could be because my car hadn't moved, but could also be the PPC just used the photos in PCN 1, photoshopped the timestamps and passed it on as new "evidence" for PCN 2. Has there been cases in the past of PPCs falsifying photographic evidence?

Thanks!

NeilCr

Is the space one that is allocated to you for your sole use through the lease or tenancy agreement? Did the "overlapping" go into another bay or just a part of the car park?

Do you know by whose/what authority the PPC was introduced to the site? Is the block HA or private?

asdf12345

Tenancy agreement does mention “one parking space” but doesn’t specific which space - tenants tend to park in any space in the car park. Overlapping went into another bay. Block is private and the PPC was introduced by the landlord.

Any advice on how I should proceed with my appeal argument?

Also I understand that if PPC bringing in debt collectors will not affect my credit rating and my rating will only be affected if I lose the court case and then refuse to pay within 28 days?

System

How far into the other bay did it go? If it was say 1 inch then this would be "de minimis" but it depends on how "unreasonable" you were to the person in the next bay.

Fruitcake

asdf12345 wrote: »

Tenancy agreement does mention “one parking space” but doesn’t specific which space - tenants tend to park in any space in the car park. Overlapping went into another bay. Block is private and the PPC was introduced by the landlord.

Any advice on how I should proceed with my appeal argument?

Also I understand that if PPC bringing in debt collectors will not affect my credit rating and my rating will only be affected if I lose the court case and then refuse to pay within 28 days?

Appeal using the template from the NEWBIES thread.

Complain to the landlord and MA. Residents being targeted is not the reason why an unregulated parking scammer was brought in. If there is no mention of parking scammers in the lease/AST, or mention of paying a third party, point that out to them as well.

Complain to your MP about this unregulated scam using the comments from other MPs in open parliament you will find in red in the NEWBIES.

Your assumptions about debt crawlers and credit rating are correct.

asdf12345

Bays on either side was empty. I was about 0.5 meters into the other bay.

System

I was about 0.5 meters into the other bay.

Would that have interfered with the owner's/occupier's peaceful enjoyment? In other words was it useable or did you remove someone's rights to use it by parking in it?

asdf12345

Thanks for the advice Fruitcake, I’ve already complained to the managing agent. You mentioned using the Newbies template, but does the fact that I’ve already paid/admitted to being the driver for PCN 1 jeapordise the denial of knowing the driver for PCN 2 since my car hadn’t moved so both PCNs are effectively for the same “offence” event

Fruitcake

asdf12345 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice Fruitcake, I’ve already complained to the managing agent. You mentioned using the Newbies template, but does the fact that I’ve already paid/admitted to being the driver for PCN 1 jeapordise the denial of knowing the driver for PCN 2 since my car hadn’t moved so both PCNs are effectively for the same “offence” event

No connection. The scammers have to make separate keeper requests from the DVLA for each and every alleged parking event, and no assumption can be made about the identity of the driver irrespective of what happened previously.
I could have been driving your car as far as the PPC is concerned.

Send the DVLA a SAR asking who has obtained your personal info for your vehicle between dates X and date Y. This will tell you if they applied for your data on both occasions.

Coupon-mad

UK Car Park Management (UK CPM).

None of the detail matters and no appeal will work. DO NOT TRY IAS stage.

This will be winnable by you (potentially) at court stage, where we see 99% of fully-assisted posters win.