'Mr A Jones RE Master B Jones'

Angie_B

Firstly, I'm sorry to hear of your loss.

Whilst I realise this is not the nature of your question, please think hard before trying to get the other beneficiaries to "repay". There are some things in life more important than money, and family is one of them.

Sadly your uncle passed away and, whilst I do not claim to know your family circumstances, money and wills can be a particularly sensitive topic, even years after the event. Starting a battle over money can lead to irreversible family breakdowns. Please just consider carefully if you really want to go down this route and, if you do, how far you are willing to go.

ValiantSon

It won't be for the other beneficiaries to repay. If the solicitors - acting as executors - incorrectly included an asset in the estate which did not belong to the deceased, then it is the solicitors who are liable. And yes, they will be insured, and yes, the insurance will cover them.

soulsaver

How long ago did this happen?
What reason did the solicitors give you for treating it as his residual estate when it appears there is some justifiable argument of it being yours already?

xylophone

In answer to you question, I have been told by the bank that any attempt to withdraw the money would have required a letter from my uncle outlining why the withdrawal would have been in my interest.

This suggests that the account was held in bare trust rather than in a designated account.

See https://www.bathbuildingsociety.co.uk/savings/personal-savings-and-investments/supersaver

All withdrawals must benefit the child. Our staff will ask for proof that the funds are being withdrawn for this reason if it is not obvious from the transaction. Please do not be offended if you are asked to prove the purpose of any withdrawal. Please note that in some circumstances the Society may refuse to complete a transaction if we are unsure if the funds are being used for the benefit of the child.

If the account was merely designated then it remained in your uncle's estate because a designation is really no more than a " I am putting this money aside with the intention of one day gifting it to X" - there was no obligation ever to give it to X.

A "Bare Trust" is an outright gift to the beneficiary - the Trustee/donor holds the account for the benefit of X who has the absolute right to access and control at the age of 18 (16 in Scotland).

The Bare Trust is therefore outwith the Trustee/donor's estate.

Malthusian

steampowered wrote: »

Either way, I'm not sure the solicitor's insurance would cover it, unless you could prove that the solicitor had been negligent. If the solicitor was not made aware of the documentation I'm not sure they would have been negligent. There is a limit to the amount of time you could expect a solicitor to spend looking into bank T&Cs for £1,000.

The fact that the bank account was in the name of "Mr A Jones RE Master B Jones" is a clear indicator that the account was likely to be in bare trust for B Jones, and the solicitors were negligent in not making further enquiries. A simple phone call to the bank would have established that it was indeed in trust and not the estate's money (post #9).

The fact that the account says "RE Master B Jones" did not prove for certain that it was a bare trust account, but it did prove for certain that further investigation was needed.

If they didn't bother because it was "only £1,000" then now they have to pony up "only £1,000" plus interest and the OP's share of any Inheritance Tax and/or solicitor's fees that was incorrectly paid due to the size of the estate being incorrectly inflated. The OP should make a formal complaint.

That said, one thing to check first:

As I was one of the residuary beneficiaries I kept the savings account and my dad became the signatory on the account. However, the value of the savings account was deducted against what I was paid when the estate was divided up.

Did the Will specifically say that any gifts to the OP should be deducted from his share of the estate? If it did, the bare trust account is still not part of the estate, but it would have been correct to deduct the value.

james312235

Very helpful responses - thank you all.

This happened almost 10 years ago. However, the solicitors (as both executors and administrators) did not provide us with a copy of the full accounts. A few weeks back I noticed that I did not have them and got in touch to request them. On receiving the full accounts I was shocked to notice that my dividend was less the value of the savings account. I was never informed of this at the time - I remember receiving the cheque and assuming it would be the same as the other beneficiaries.

I haven't yet made the solicitors aware of my concerns. I am waiting for the back to send me all the original documents and T&Cs.

For the savings account to be a bare trust, will the T&Cs have to explicitly say that it is held in 'bare trust'?

james312235

In terms of the other beneficiaries, as my Uncle's estate was overvalued they will have received to much money. What will happen to that?

I might also add that the solicitors fees amounted to almost 15% of the estate value.

Malthusian

james312235 wrote: »

For the savings account to be a bare trust, will the T&Cs have to explicitly say that it is held in 'bare trust'?

No. What you said in post #9 has already established that it was in trust for you.

In terms of the other beneficiaries, as my Uncle's estate was overvalued they will have received to much money. What will happen to that?

Not their problem as the solicitor should be liable.

I might also add that the solicitors fees amounted to almost 15% of the estate value.

Not necessarily unreasonable - it depends on how big the estate was.

soulsaver

james312235 wrote: »

In answer to you question, I have been told by the bank that any attempt to withdraw the money would have required a letter from my uncle outlining why the withdrawal would have been in my interest. Do you think that would satisfy?

'..solely in your interest'?

soulsaver

IMHO the pragmatic course of action is to ask the acting solicitors if there has been a mistake. It will roll on from there.

Maybe contact Citizens Advice for free legal advice?

Is there any time limitation on challenge?