Dispute over communal land for freehold properties

BooBoo66

Advice needed please:-

9 years ago we bought a property that was part of a converted coaching inn and stables - the whole property had been converted 6 years before we bought and split into 6 separate properties, however there is a shared drive and water treatment plant that was retained by the original developer.
For information the original developer was a partnership of two local businessmen and they each owned 50% of the retained land.
When we bought our solicitor queried the shared areas and whether there was a management company and associated charges - our solicitor received a signed letter from the sellers stating that there wasn't a management company and there was no need for one and that any bills were split 6 ways and this was managed by one of the residents of one of the other properties, so we went ahead with the purchase.
A year later the resident who dealt with the shared bills sold and passed the management across to my husband and myself as no one else was willing to take it on, either then or at anytime in the following years, so we continued to manage it.
18 months ago one of the original developers passed away, and now his land agent who is also one of the executors of his will - has done work on the drive and treatment plant, with no consultation- apart from emails stating that each household will be liable for 1/6 of the cost + his management fee and that he will be managing the land going forwards.
All residents have tried to have a meeting with him and the other parties - but we're just met with refusals to even enter into discussion - one of the pieces of work they've undertaken is to re-lay the drive, but this is going to have to be dug up again as a soakaway has collapsed and needs to be replaced - they were aware of this and the fact that a newly laid drive is going to have to bu dug up - but carried on regardless.

Having read lots of horror stories on the internet, i realise freeholders in this position don't have many rights - but due to the fact that the land owners have done nothing tor the past 10+ years and we've not paid anything directly to them as we've managed the maintenance and repairs ourselves do we have any legal rights?

Thanks for reading and any helpful advice would be great

Norman_Castle

BooBoo66 wrote: »

When we bought our solicitor queried the shared areas and whether there was a management company and associated charges - our solicitor received a signed letter from the sellers stating that there wasn't a management company and there was no need for one and that any bills were split 6 ways and this was managed by one of the residents of one of the other properties




18 months ago one of the original developers passed away, and now his land agent who is also one of the executors of his will - has done work on the drive and treatment plant, with no consultation- apart from emails stating that each household will be liable for 1/6 of the cost + his management fee and that he will be managing the land going forwards.

The executor of a will should distribute the estate not take control and interfere with it. What right has he got to manage it? Who are the beneficiaries?

Advise him payment is unlikely without proper consultation and communication.

Is there a right to manage for freeholders in this situation?


Edit. This looks like fleecehold.
https://www.leaseholdknowledge.com/fleecehold-petition-launched-stop-housebuilders-creating-yet-another-revenue-stream-customers

G_M

BooBoo66 wrote: »

.
For information the original developer was a partnership of two local businessmen and they each owned 50% of the retained land.
When we bought our solicitor queried the shared areas and whether there was a management company and associated charges - our solicitor received a signed letter from the sellers stating that there wasn't a management company and there was no need for one and that any bills were split 6 ways and this was managed by one of the residents of one of the other properties, so we went ahead with the purchase.

Was it simply your decision to go ahead on the basis of this letter, or did your solicitor give advice?

What was the advice? Did you follow it or ignore it?

It seems to me that the crux of this is the legal arrangement between the owners of the retained land (with the drive and treatment plant) on the one hand, and each of the 6 freeholders of the properties on the other.

The letter from the seller is all but irrelevant.

What do the Titles to each of the 6 properties show? Please quote them.

What does the Title to the retained Land show? Please quote it.

Is there a relevant Conveyance, or a Deed, setting out rights and responsibilities of the various properties? Please quote in full.

moneyistooshorttomention

I'd be willing to bet that none of the paperwork indicated gives any indication whatsoever as to how things are due to be managed:cool:

Though I'm guessing that such a total lack of indication in it might be helpful of itself??? - ie that maybe no-one would be allowed to make communal decisions on their own if there isn't something down in writing saying specifically that they are allowed to do so???

eddddy

Typically, when you buy a property like this, you have to sign a Deed of Covenent (i.e. an agreement or contract) with the management company -saying that you will pay maintenance fees.

Did you sign one? If so, you need to read it to see what you agreed to pay the management company for, and in what circumstances.

If you didn't sign a deed - you probably don't have to pay the management company anything, unless you choose to.


Your post suggests that there may not have been a deed - instead the freeholders just agreed between themselves about spending money.

But it could also be that a deed exists - but until now, the management company chose not to exercise any of their rights specified in the deed.

G_M

Equally what gives you the right to discharge your effluent into the freeholder's treatment plant........?

[Deleted User]

Hasn't this situation been posted on here before, a few months ago?

moneyistooshorttomention

I don't recall a similar thread - certainly no recollection of a communal effluent thing.

moneyistooshorttomention

eddddy wrote: »

Typically, when you buy a property like this, you have to sign a Deed of Covenent (i.e. an agreement or contract) with the management company -saying that you will pay maintenance fees.

Did you sign one? If so, you need to read it to see what you agreed to pay the management company for, and in what circumstances.

If you didn't sign a deed - you probably don't have to pay the management company anything, unless you choose to.


.

That's the sort of thing I'm thinking of - ie as to whether OP actually signed any sort of "promise to pay" on anything.

If they haven't - then I think they need to be aware there may be an attempt to be a bit "tricky" made by this lot, ie I do wonder what the legal position would be if a bill got presented to them with any wording that might suggest there was such a contract (when there isnt) and paying it in any provable way (ie some way other than in cash) could possibly be taken as a de facto agreement that there is a "contract" iyswim. I don't know how the law stands on that - but it's something that might prove a bit tricky if it happened.

I think it would probably be for the best to say (verbally) that one will pay an appropriate portion of a fair quote (ie quoting firm to be approved by all residents) and then pay that in cash (ie getting a receipt for it personally - but that being the only paperwork - just one bit of paperwork in OP's hands only)??? Then a fair amount would be paid for the service they are providing and OP would have the proof they'd paid, but the company wouldnt have anything they could state was "proof of a contract" iyswim. I'm wondering if that would be a way forward?

BooBoo66

Thank you for the replies, I'll try and answer all the questions in this post.

Our solicitor didn't advise one way or the other but based on the letter from our sellers and conversations with other residents we went ahead with the purchase.

The executor of the will was the land agent of the deceased - i'm presuming the beneficiaries are the children of the deceased - I'm not sure they care about a tiny plot of land, a bit more info the executor who appears to be the main instigator is the boyfriend of one of the residents, who none of the other residents speak to, due to various underhand actions by her. So I believe this is personal and actually there is a conflict of interest?

We did sign a deed, I do not have access to the title deed for the shared land but there are multiple pages from ours:-

In summary:-

We are granted the right to pass and repass over the accessway, have drainage and utilities (water, electricity, telecommunications, gas ) running on/over/under the accessway,

The Transferor and his successors have the same rights on the accessway,

We have agreed to pay a fair proportion of the service charge, to pay a fair proportion of the additional costs towards the upkeep repair renewal and replacement of the foul drainage system.
Within 14 days of written demand such sums the Transferor may reasonably demand in advance and on account service charge.
Interest at the rate of 4% above base rate will be applied to sums not paid within 14 days.
All costs and expenses that the Transferor may incur by reason of any breach of the Transferee's covenants in the transfer whether or not proceeds are commenced.
All expenses incurred in collecting arrears of service charge, whether or not proceedings are taken and whatever the outcome.

Positive Covenants by the Transferor
As soon as reasonably practicable provide an account of money owing
Maintain repair renew and clean as appropriate the accessway and any conducting media.
Maintain repair renew and replace as necessary the foul drainage system
Maintain repair renew and keep tidy the amenity areas
Pay for public liability insurance

Reading through the covenants again - it appears we've basically signed to let them do what they want and charge whatever they like.

BUT - they have not managed / maintained / repaired / renewed anything for 10+ years it's all been managed by the residents, and only in the past couple of months have they decided that they want to take over and start managing their land.
Are they not in breach of the positive covenants?
Do we have any rights, i.e. is there any point trying to get lawyers onto this, or would this be just a waste of money - I'm happy to go down the lawyer/court route but only if there is a decent chance of a positive outcome.

Thanks again for any helpful advice

BooBoo66

An additional bit of info:-

A couple of years ago one of the other residents contacted the co-owner (now deceased) and asked if there was any possibility of the land being transferred into shared ownership by the residents (i.e. 1/6 each) - and the response was positive, and the next steps were to have a meeting and agree a price, but sadly he fell ill and this never happened.

We have copies of the email trail - would this help our cause now.

Also another quick question (sorry) - the land owners & executor of the will are refusing to meet and discuss - can we force a meeting?

Thanks again