GLINT - 'reintroducing Gold as currency'

Computer_Beginner

markj113 wrote: »

You may mock but I bet those in Venezuela and now Turkey wished they grabbed a little gold pre crisis. If you held the funds in gold in your Glint account and sold a little as needed you would be protected from the currency devaluation.

The question here would be, what do you own that the government doesn't know about?

Have you heard the phrase ''selling the family silver''?
That comes from the fact that non-bullion precious metals (eg cutlery) are often less scrutinised by governments than bullion.
Of course burglars may be less generous in their opinions..!

markj113

Computer_Beginner wrote: »

You wouldn't be protected if the government decided to take the gold funds from your account.

How would they do that if its held in a vault in another country? They would be far more likely to do a Cyprus style banking haircut and claw in a lot more money than targetting Glint customers.

The main point of precious metals is they remove 3rd party risk which is why my holdings are in physical metal in my control.

My Glint account will hold a few £k as a bit of a speculative saving account where I can easily spend the proceeds at any time. When my Santander "every day saver" account is paying 0.25% interest why not. I am not about to plough my life savings into Glint

Computer_Beginner

markj113 wrote: »

How would they do that if its held in a vault in another country?

They'd ask Glint for details of your account. Then freeze it or just tell Glint to close your account and transfer the funds in GBP to the government. They wouldn't actually need to go anywhere near Swizerland.

Glint can't / won't refuse if they're operating in the UK.

All a bit far fetched I know. But then why is Bitcoin so popular? It's not because a string of numbers on a hard drive has any intrinsic value. It's because people percieve it as being outside government control. I don't know whether it is. And unless someone pays cash for the Bitcoin, I can't see how it's anonymous.

The government doesn't have to physically seize your assets. They just have to suspect you have the assets and if you don't cough up you go to jail. Maybe.

markj113

Computer_Beginner wrote: »

They'd ask Glint for details of your account. Then freeze it or just tell Glint to close your account and transfer the funds in GBP to the government. They wouldn't actually need to go anywhere near Swizerland.

Glint can't / won't refuse if they're operating in the UK.

All a bit far fetched I know. But then why is Bitcoin so popular? It's not because a string of numbers on a hard drive has any intrinsic value. It's because people percieve it as being outside government control. I don't know whether it is. And unless someone pays cash for the Bitcoin, I can't see how it's anonymous.

The government doesn't have to physically seize your assets. They just have to suspect you have the assets and if you don't cough up you go to jail. Maybe.

Seems like a lot of effort for a tiny customer base compared to mainstream banks.

I didnt hear of Cyprus doing anything similar in their recent economic crisis. They just raided all the mainstream bank accounts holding more than 100k euros.

Also how would that work if you hold serial number allocated bars that are held under the customers name in a foreign vault which is upcoming in glints goals.

Malthusian

markj113 wrote: »

You may mock but I bet those in Venezuela and now Turkey wished they grabbed a little gold pre crisis.

No they don't.

Malthusian_April_2017 wrote:

A Zimbabwean who put his savings in gold to protect against hyperinflation when Mugabe assumed dictatorial powers in 1987 would have seen them grow by 284% to the present day.

A Zimbabwean who put his savings in a globally diversified portfolio of equities to protect against hyperinflation would have seen them grow by 802% over the same period.

For two Venezuelans who decided to protect themselves against hyperinflation when Nicolas Maduro took power, [a gold investor] would have seen his savings grow 12.7% and [an investor in global equities] 55.6%.

I'm not going to re-run the figures but given the direction of markets, I am pretty confident that a Venezuelan would still have been better off investing in diversified global equities and the same applies to a Turk who invested when Erdogan took power.

aroominyork

PuzzledDave wrote: »

ARRGGHHH !!! It's the apocalypse :eek: !! The end times :eek: !! All my pounds and dollars are worthless !

At least I have some gold that I can barter for food. Oh... it's in Switzerland.... and apparently not mine either.

But even if you could get a flight to Switzerland during the apocalypse, just how much muesli could you stomach?

Malthusian

Computer_Beginner wrote: »

They'd ask Glint for details of your account.

Nope. You were right the second time. They would demand you hand over the money, and if you didn't they'd throw you in jail.

"Ah", you say "but how would they know about it?" The trouble with hiding money offshore is that if you are in a government's jurisdiction, the chances are you have onshore accounts in that government's jurisdiction as well, as you need your onshore accounts to buy milk and eggs.

Moving money to an offshore account (or Bitcoin) creates a record or at least a hole in your onshore accounts. The Government does not need to bother with your offshore accounts or your Bitcoin ledgers. If you are dumb enough to lie about or refuse to disclose your assets when the Government has you in its grasp, it just has to get a court order for your onshore accounts.

Then once it has established roughly how much you have, it tells you to hand over whatever it wants, and either you pay up or go to jail.

If you manage to conduct your entire financial life via offshore accounts and/or can remain out of the hands of the police, then you are either a fugitive or a super-rich tax exile and will not be looking on MSE for financial advice. The vast majority of MSErs do not have sufficient assets or the inclination to spend their entire life living in s---holes like Dubai, unable to visit their old ma without being arrested at the airport.

Computer_Beginner

Malthusian wrote: »

No they don't.


I'm not going to re-run the figures but given the direction of markets, I am pretty confident that a Venezuelan would still have been better off investing in diversified global equities and the same applies to a Turk who invested when Erdogan took power.

That may well be true, provided that your average citizen in Zimbabwe is able to access his funds. There's also the risk that the Zimbabwe government would just take the funds out of the account.

Obviously the rich well connected people at the top will be able to open accounts overseas etc. But for your average local, then savings in physical gold (hidden away somewhere) and USD for day-to-day spending will probably be the best bet.

Luckily, I live in the UK. So hopefully I'll never have to experience such conditions.

Computer_Beginner

Malthusian wrote: »

Nope. You were right the second time. They would demand you hand over the money, and if you didn't they'd throw you in jail.

"Ah", you say "but how would they know about it?" The trouble with hiding money offshore is that if you are in a government's jurisdiction, the chances are you have onshore accounts in that government's jurisdiction as well, as you need your onshore accounts to buy milk and eggs.

Moving money to an offshore account (or Bitcoin) creates a record or at least a hole in your onshore accounts. The Government does not need to bother with your offshore accounts or your Bitcoin ledgers. If you are dumb enough to lie about or refuse to disclose your assets when the Government has you in its grasp, it just has to get a court order for your onshore accounts.

Then once it has established roughly how much you have, it tells you to hand over whatever it wants, and either you pay up or go to jail.

If you manage to conduct your entire financial life via offshore accounts and/or can remain out of the hands of the police, then you are either a fugitive or a super-rich tax exile and will not be looking on MSE for financial advice. The vast majority of MSErs do not have sufficient assets or the inclination to spend their entire life living in s---holes like Dubai, unable to visit their old ma without being arrested at the airport.

I agree.
But I'd be surprised if the UAE govt didn't co-operate with the UK govt.
I also wouldn't like to end up in a UAE (or any Middle East) jail.

Malthusian

Computer_Beginner wrote: »

That may well be true, provided that your average citizen in Zimbabwe is able to access his funds. There's also the risk that the Zimbabwe government would just take the funds out of the account.

The average Zimbabwean citizen doesn't have any money so doesn't come into this discussion. For a well-off Zimbabwean (or Venezuelan or Turk) who wants to insulate themself from the actions of the Government, if they are considering investing in Glint they could just as easily invest in a global portfolio of funds via a multinational fund platform which the government could not access directly.

If you can keep gold out of the hands out of the local authorities you can trivially do the same with a diversified portfolio of equities.

Either way you still need to ensure that the government doesn't simply arrest you and demand you turn over the funds. People do not lose their money to corrupt Governments because they fail to invest in gold. They lose their money because they are too late to board the plane.

The average Zimbabwean, meanwhile, will barter with whatever they can acquire on a day-to-day basis.

Obviously the rich well connected people at the top will be able to open accounts overseas etc. But for your average local, then savings in physical gold (hidden away somewhere) and USD for day-to-day spending will probably be the best bet.

Physical gold hidden away somewhere is even worse than Glint. If the police know or suspect that you have hidden assets they will simply rip up your floorboards and take it away.

But I'd be surprised if the UAE govt didn't co-operate with the UK govt.

Dubai isn't full of scammers because of its lovely climate.