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Landlord didn't protect the deposit. Given notice, where do we stand.

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  • norainbows
    norainbows Posts: 80 Forumite
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    Pixie5740 wrote: »
    Do landlords in Kent have to be registered? I see a few councils have accredited landlord schemes but there isn't mandatory licensing like there is in Scotland.

    Has your friend actually moved out of the property yet? If not your friend simply has to stay put and refuse to move out until the full deposit is returned because I assume that your friend never agreed to any of these deductions.

    The lack of deposit protection means that any Section 21 notice issued will be invalid unless the landlord returns either the full deposit or the deposit minus any deductions your friend has agreed to.

    https://markprichard.co.uk/content/documents/180408-Section-21-checker-tool.pdf

    If the deposit has not been protected then your friend can sue the landlord and must be awarded not less than one times the value of the deposit and not more than three times the value of the deposit by the court.

    See G_M's Deposits: payment, protection and return.

    My friend hasn't moved out of the property yet but is due to sign next week. She does not want to lose this new house as they have already paid a lot in fees and houses where we are get snapped up quickly. So she is in a bit of a catch 22 situation. The LL promised the full deposit back before moving so she could move quickly and not hamper the sale of the property. So my friend has managed to get another property based on these figures. She does not have spare money to take the LL to court as she already has 2 jobs and doesn't have any disposable income. But this means she can't now move forward! If she stays put she loses the new house and all the money paid so far for fees and referencing etc, she can't afford to throw this money away. No she did not agree to deductions. The house was inspected a few months before the LL said they wanted to sell so there shouldn't be any deductions as nothing was flagged at that time. The offer to return the full deposit happened after the house inspection.

    Sadly there is no spare money to sue and this won't help in the short term as the new house won't wait.
    Neurodiverse and struggling with not being 'normal'.
  • GDB2222
    GDB2222 Posts: 24,854 Forumite
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    norainbows wrote: »
    My friend hasn't moved out of the property yet but is due to sign next week. She does not want to lose this new house as they have already paid a lot in fees and houses where we are get snapped up quickly. So she is in a bit of a catch 22 situation. The LL promised the full deposit back before moving so she could move quickly and not hamper the sale of the property. So my friend has managed to get another property based on these figures. She does not have spare money to take the LL to court as she already has 2 jobs and doesn't have any disposable income. But this means she can't now move forward! If she stays put she loses the new house and all the money paid so far for fees and referencing etc, she can't afford to throw this money away. No she did not agree to deductions. The house was inspected a few months before the LL said they wanted to sell so there shouldn't be any deductions as nothing was flagged at that time. The offer to return the full deposit happened after the house inspection.

    Sadly there is no spare money to sue and this won't help in the short term as the new house won't wait.

    Your friend has a choice to make:
    a) Stay in the present house, which gives her leverage to get the rest of the deposit back, but lose the money already paid on the new place.
    b) Move to the new place. She can then, at her leisure, sue the LL for failing to secure the deposit.

    Personally, I'd choose b. The cost of suing the LL is rather small - just the court fees - and it's not that daunting.

    Whether the LL declares the rent for tax is a complete red herring, unless you are planning to blackmail him/her. Either report the LL to HMRC, or don't. But you can get into serious trouble if you attempt to extort money from the LL on that basis.
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
  • Pixie5740
    Pixie5740 Posts: 14,515 Forumite
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    norainbows wrote: »
    My friend hasn't moved out of the property yet but is due to sign next week. She does not want to lose this new house as they have already paid a lot in fees and houses where we are get snapped up quickly. So she is in a bit of a catch 22 situation. The LL promised the full deposit back before moving so she could move quickly and not hamper the sale of the property. So my friend has managed to get another property based on these figures. She does not have spare money to take the LL to court as she already has 2 jobs and doesn't have any disposable income. But this means she can't now move forward! If she stays put she loses the new house and all the money paid so far for fees and referencing etc, she can't afford to throw this money away. No she did not agree to deductions. The house was inspected a few months before the LL said they wanted to sell so there shouldn't be any deductions as nothing was flagged at that time. The offer to return the full deposit happened after the house inspection.

    Sadly there is no spare money to sue and this won't help in the short term as the new house won't wait.

    Your friend isn't in a catch 22 situation at all. She is in a very strong negotiating position. Your friend doesn't have to sue the landlord she just needs to let him know that she knows she could.

    You wanted to know where your friend stands and I've told you. It's up to her to decide how to use this knowledge. You say she's in a catch 22 situation but she is not. She is in a very strong negotiating position. Your friend doesn't even have to sue the landlord she just needs to let him know that she knows she could.
  • bigisi
    bigisi Posts: 925 Forumite
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    Pixie5740 wrote: »
    Your friend isn't in a catch 22 situation at all. She is in a very strong negotiating position. Your friend doesn't have to sue the landlord she just needs to let him know that she knows she could.

    You wanted to know where your friend stands and I've told you. It's up to her to decide how to use this knowledge. You say she's in a catch 22 situation but she is not. She is in a very strong negotiating position. Your friend doesn't even have to sue the landlord she just needs to let him know that she knows she could.

    So important you said it twice :D
  • TonyMMM
    TonyMMM Posts: 3,386 Forumite
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    G_M wrote: »
    If the relationship is 'amicable', why not explain, amicably, that she cannot move (& afford new deposit) unless the current LL returns the full deposit in advance.

    If LL refuses (ie 'amicability' disappears) then tenant advises LL that

    1) she won't (can't) move till a court order is obtained by LL
    2) S21 is invalid so LL can't get court order AND
    3) she'll be claiming the penalty for non-protectuon of the deposit.

    Chances are the LL will then 'amicably' return the full deposit to help the tenant move and hope the tenant leaves and does not sue for the penalty (which she can do any time in the next 6 years)

    Has she had this conversation (recommended 3 days ago) yet ... ?
  • LandyAndy
    LandyAndy Posts: 26,377 Forumite
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    norainbows wrote: »
    Why would the law abiding tenant be required to pay tax to the HMRC? She has been paying market value for the rent which is quite high and going up astronomically every few months?

    The Landlord lives in the next road to the tenant.

    If the LL lives overseas the tenant is required to deduct tax from the rent paid and pay that tax over to HMRC.

    Clearly that won't apply here now that you have told us the LL is UK resident.
  • giraffe69
    giraffe69 Posts: 3,561 Forumite
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    If there is a small shortfall pending the return of the rest of the deposit then maybe take out a small loan or borrow from a friend rather than give up the new place?
  • Pixie5740
    Pixie5740 Posts: 14,515 Forumite
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    bigisi wrote: »
    So important you said it twice :D

    Exactly...
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
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    Pixie5740 wrote: »
    Exactly...
    Sorry - what was it you said twice? I must have missed it.......
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
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    How can you be 100% sure that she is not declaring the rental income? The LL is hardly going to go around broadcasting that?
    norainbows wrote: »
    Because anytime a workman has gone to the house, through general conversation it transpired they thought they were relatives of the Landlord not private tenants, which is odd.
    That is a huge deductive leap to make!
    And anyway as pointed out, LL's tax position is really not relevant here.
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