Deposit Deductions - Are these fair?

twofatslugs

Myself and 3 others have just finished a 2 year tenancy on a student property. One tenant moved out after the first year ended, and another moved in. The aforementioned tenant who left early obviously had their deposit returned upon vacating the property. We had a deposit down of £1,750 on the property, and the landlord is claiming circa £1,700 of it. Some of the charges we think are reasonable, and some we don't, however I'm just looking for some advice as to if its fair or not. Currently we and the landlord are negotiating as to an agreeable fee, however this will most probably end up being resolved in a formal dispute.

The tenant that joined us a year later was awful, and has subsequently cost us a fortune in deposit deductions that we simply have to agree too.

Circa £450 was taken to repaint this tenants room as they were stupid enough to repaint it.

£200 was carpet cleaning (as said tenants room was covered in paint stains), though the landlord has charged for housewide carpet cleaning. We agree obviously for the paint stains, though not the rest of the carpets.

£130 was taken to clean the oven.
We cleaned this on two occasions circa 2-3 weeks before the end of the tenancy (we had all vacated the property over a month before the tenancy was due to end). We have pictures from the initial inventory that shows the oven was not clean to begin with. We forgot to replace the filter (we have been charged for this) though it hadn't been replaced upon entering the property. We are refuting this.

£125 for admin fees.
In our tenancy agreement a clause states that post tenancy agreement the landlord will charge £25/hr for their time on the property.
The landlord cannot prove they were on the property for 5 hours, so we are refuting this.

£25 for defrosting the freezer.
We completely forgot to do this but the £25 charge is based on the landlord being there for an hour as mentioned above.

£300 cleaning.
The initial inventory cites numerous instances of uncleanliness. Myself and 2 other tenants and our parents deep cleaned the house. Much of the checkout report cites uncleanliness that was apparent on the initial inventory, or instances of dust. We are refuting this charge. The landlord has an invoice for this, and it lists in detail what has been cleaned. Luckily for us I suppose, everything the landlord cleaned we both did ourselves, and was noted as dirty on the initial inventory.

£230 for a new sink.
Our favourite problem tenant cracked the sink - we kind of have to accept this really, though it was an awfully old sink to begin with.

£100 for the garden.
The garden was in a really bad state when we arrived, and it was pretty much dead thanks to the heatwave when we left. The landlord is charging us for the dead lawn and the trimming of the hedges (the latter were trimmed to exactly the state as when we arrived).

We've got a shed load of pictures of befores and afters that show the similarities and differences as to when we arrived and left and think we have a pretty good case. Just wondering what everyone else thinks!

Also wondering if there's anything we can do about the problem tenant such as suing? It was a joint tenancy agreement unfortunately so we probably don't have a case. We do have proof she painted the room thanks to her instagramming and full on emailing the landlord that she'd painted the room.

Thanks in advance!

EDIT: Just to add these are the major charges, the minor charges aren't a concern to us at the moment (we agree with some, and disagree with others).

steampowered

The repainting / sink replacement / cleaning paint in the carpet all sound reasonable, but the rest sounds like a mickey take to me.

I would be asking to see receipts for the painting / sink / cleaning, and disputing everything else.

I would do one letter/email to the landlord setting out the deductions you are prepared to agree to, and if the landlord doesn't agree go straight to dispute with the scheme where your deposit is registered.

twofatslugs

steampowered wrote: »

The repainting / sink replacement / cleaning paint in the carpet all sound reasonable, but the rest sounds like a mickey take to me.

I would be asking to see receipts for the painting / sink / cleaning, and disputing everything else.

I would do one letter/email to the landlord setting out the deductions you are prepared to agree to, and if the landlord doesn't agree go straight to dispute with the scheme where your deposit is registered.

Yeah I was thinking that most of it sounded like a joke to be honest. Yesterday I sent over an email detailing what we agreed and disagreed with and we're just waiting for a reply. We've got invoices for the oven cleaning and carpet cleaning (though these are all in one invoice), the replacement sink, and the repainting of the room so that's all kosher as far as I'm concerned (bar the obvious disagreement with the oven cleaning and the rest of the carpets). We had an invoice for the cleaning but all it consisted of was a word doc with a list of things that were cleaned and then "£300" at the end.

I was most annoyed to be honest with the garden and the admin costs. How can they prove they were at the property for an arbitrary amount of time and whack a £25/hr fee on it?. Also the garden seemed like a joke to be honest, and the landlord was really uptight about the garden for the whole 2 years we were living there.

Once we've received a reply we'll go straight to a TDS dispute as we're assuming the landlord isn't going to budge. We've gone through the initial inventory with a fine tooth comb comparing it to both the checkout report and the cleaning invoice and we're relatively confident that we'll recoup most of the cleaning money, and we've managed to prepare a substantial number of documents as evidence to support our case.

dimbo61

Contact the DPS service ASAP to dispute the deductions

elsien

£450 to paint one bedroom? Really?

saajan_12

twofatslugs wrote: »

Myself and 3 others have just finished a 2 year tenancy on a student property. One tenant moved out after the first year ended, and another moved in. - what happened in terms of agreements: was a new tenancy agreement signed when the new student moved in? Or a deed of assignment signed to assign the tenancy from the outgoing to the incoming tenant? Or did the new tenant become a lodger of the other current housemates
The aforementioned tenant who left early obviously had their deposit returned upon vacating the property. - not obvious depending on what happened with the tenancy. Did the new tenant pay a deposit? To who? Was the deposit (re)protected when the new tenant moved in? We had a deposit down of £1,750 on the property, and the landlord is claiming circa £1,700 of it. Some of the charges we think are reasonable, and some we don't, however I'm just looking for some advice as to if its fair or not. Currently we and the landlord are negotiating as to an agreeable fee, however this will most probably end up being resolved in a formal dispute. - many posters here will advise going straight to the deposit scheme, but you have one shot there so it can be time consuming gathering evidence etc. I think it can be useful to negotiate a settlement with the LL, even if you don't get all the way, you can agree on reasonable figures for parts of it.

The tenant that joined us a year later was awful, and has subsequently cost us a fortune in deposit deductions that we simply have to agree too. Assuming you're on a joint and several tenancy (as opposed to renting individual rooms on individual contracts), you're jointly and severally liable for damage to the entire property as far as the LL is concerned. However you can agree between the tenants to each pay for damages you caused, and split any general cleaning.

Circa £450 was taken to repaint this tenants room as they were stupid enough to repaint it. - What colour did they repaint? If it's dark, could take a few coats. Also what's the property location? Seems high for some areas, rightish for London.

£200 was carpet cleaning (as said tenants room was covered in paint stains), though the landlord has charged for housewide carpet cleaning. We agree obviously for the paint stains, though not the rest of the carpets. - How do the pictures before / after show the change in cleanliness? Is £200 for the whole house or just that room?

£130 was taken to clean the oven.
We cleaned this on two occasions circa 2-3 weeks before the end of the tenancy (we had all vacated the property over a month before the tenancy was due to end). We have pictures from the initial inventory that shows the oven was not clean to begin with. We forgot to replace the filter (we have been charged for this) though it hadn't been replaced upon entering the property. We are refuting this. - Why were two cleans necessary - was the first one not sufficient? Whether you cleaned isn't really relevant, its more whether the result of that was more or less clean than the pictures show at the start. I think a filter is a consumable so you don't have to provide a new one, just if its at the point of needing replacing then its your responsibility to replace. If it was not brand new but still usable at the start then the LL didn't need to replace at the start.

£125 for admin fees.
In our tenancy agreement a clause states that post tenancy agreement the landlord will charge £25/hr for their time on the property.
The landlord cannot prove they were on the property for 5 hours, so we are refuting this.- In general reasonable fees in the agreement ARE enforceable, but what's the LL's basis for claiming this is reasonable? If he was at the property doing labour, fine - this is effectively his labour cost. Eg. to clean. If he was watching other people to work, that sounds like an avoidable 'cost' so he can't charge if he decided to spend time at the property.

£25 for defrosting the freezer.
We completely forgot to do this but the £25 charge is based on the landlord being there for an hour as mentioned above. - In principal, fine to charge for something, but the LL has a duty to mitigate his damages, ie spend 2 mins flicking the switch and then let the fridge defrost while doing something else. No extra hour spent.

£300 cleaning.
The initial inventory cites numerous instances of uncleanliness. Myself and 2 other tenants and our parents deep cleaned the house. Much of the checkout report cites uncleanliness that was apparent on the initial inventory, or instances of dust. We are refuting this charge. The landlord has an invoice for this, and it lists in detail what has been cleaned. Luckily for us I suppose, everything the landlord cleaned we both did ourselves, and was noted as dirty on the initial inventory. Are there any instances of where the initial inventory shows it was clean and now it was dirty? If yes, offer a proportion of the cleaning charge for those. IF not, refute citing no change.

£230 for a new sink.
Our favourite problem tenant cracked the sink - we kind of have to accept this really, though it was an awfully old sink to begin with. - the LL must replace with a comparable sink, they can't charge for betterment.

£100 for the garden.
The garden was in a really bad state when we arrived, and it was pretty much dead thanks to the heatwave when we left. The landlord is charging us for the dead lawn and the trimming of the hedges (the latter were trimmed to exactly the state as when we arrived). - I'd dispute: Your responsibility is to return to the same state of neatness / pruning etc so lawn cut, hedges trimmed, no rubbish, plants watered. However seasonal variations are fine and if the dead grass was unavoidable that's not your fault.

We've got a shed load of pictures of befores and afters that show the similarities and differences as to when we arrived and left and think we have a pretty good case. Just wondering what everyone else thinks! - good, the onus is on the LL to prove damages rather than on you to disprove, but even deposit schemes can't be 100% foolproof, eg if LL's pictures too zoomed in / out etc. If you have pictures to refute LL's claims, it can cut off any assumptions made about the condition immediately.

Also wondering if there's anything we can do about the problem tenant such as suing? It was a joint tenancy agreement unfortunately so we probably don't have a case. We do have proof she painted the room thanks to her instagramming and full on emailing the landlord that she'd painted the room. - The joint tenancy is between tenants and LL, so as far as the LL is concerned he can chase any/all of you. The tenants could have a separate (often verbal) agreement to say, each pay x% of the rent, or pay for damages you each caused. You can sue a co tenant in small claims court on the basis of that agreement. The question would be one of proof of that agreement and who the judge believes.

Thanks in advance!

EDIT: Just to add these are the major charges, the minor charges aren't a concern to us at the moment (we agree with some, and disagree with others).

Add up what you agree to, and propose to the LL, stating if they disagree then you'll refer to the deposit scheme where the LL will have to prove all damages.

twofatslugs

saajan_12 wrote: »

Add up what you agree to, and propose to the LL, stating if they disagree then you'll refer to the deposit scheme where the LL will have to prove all damages.

Thanks for the detailed reply. I'll go through your points one by one.

With regards to a tenancy agreement, we resigned the agreement, the new tenant paid their deposit and it went into the TDS. We definitely are currently trying to negotiate with the landlord, however if it doesn't work we obviously intend to start a formal dispute.

The room was repainted white as far as we are aware. The property is in Winchester hence the pricing.

The images we have show the carpets in the same condition as when we arrived. This was a price from the whole property. The room that needed to be cleaned due to paint staining was tiny.

We needed to go back on two separate occasions to clean the oven. First to apply some bleach-type stuff, the second to wipe it off/apply more. We tried the same thing again as not all the BOG was removed. The landlord is making a point of the fact that we didn't replace the filter hence we assume it is being charged for in the invoice.

This is a quote from the tenancy charges as to the administration costs:

"Landlord administration charge: attendance for inspection and repairs, collating costs, issuing instructions and attendance for cleaning and final inspections"
We dont see how the above-mentioned can be claimed for. They cannot prove that it took them 5 hours to do this, and could have easily made up a figure.

With regards to the cleaning, everything they have charged for to clean was dirty/had comments on the initial inventory. I've gone ahead and annotated it so as to better evidence the over-cleaning done by the landlord.

When it comes to sending evidence over to the TDS, can we send word documents and the like? I've compiled a number of documents and am hoping that my work hasn't been in vein. I haven't sent the majority of our evidence over the landlord during our negotiations so far, would it be a good idea to do so? "I don't want to spunk all the good stuff early" is an old phrase from an XFM show that comes to mind over whether or not I want to send anything substantial over to the landlord.