Cutting ties with a sibling

happyandcontented

Pollycat wrote: »

I believe in being true to myself.
I don't 'do' coercion or guilt-tripping.
My own Mum would never interfere between me and my estranged sister by asking me to look out for her.
She knows full well what my sister is like and wouldn't want us 'to be there for each other' because she knows it's not what either of us would want


I could not under any circumstances mislead someone in the way the poster I responded to suggests.
Better or kinder play on words or not - to me that's dishonest and I could not do that to my Mum

So do you always tell the plain, unvarnished truth regardless of who may be hurt/affected by it? Or are there times when you 'fudge' the issue from an altruistic (not dishonest) motive?

To me, that is a white lie, certainly not dishonest per se. I would put my mum's feelings above my own under the circumstances outlined here and use language that would give my mum hope that a relationship of sorts would be maintained, whether it actually panned out that way or not she would never know.

Pollycat

happyandcontented wrote: »

So do you always tell the plain, unvarnished truth regardless of who may be hurt/affected by it? Or are there times when you 'fudge' the issue from an altruistic (not dishonest) motive?

To me, that is a white lie, certainly not dishonest per se. I would put my mum's feelings above my own under the circumstances outlined here and use language that would give my mum hope that a relationship of sorts would be maintained, whether it actually panned out that way or not she would never know.

If you're asking what my response would be if someone asks 'does my bum look big in this?', then yes, I may 'fudge' the answer.
But never, ever in circumstances such as this.
It may be a 'white lie' to you but I would not under the circumstances under discussion here utter that 'white lie'.

Just out of interest - have you ever cut a sibling out of your life?

happyandcontented

Pollycat wrote: »

If you're asking what my response would be if someone asks 'does my bum look big in this?', then yes, I may 'fudge' the answer.
But never, ever in circumstances such as this.
It may be a 'white lie' to you but I would not under the circumstances under discussion here utter that 'white lie'.

Just out of interest - have you ever cut a sibling out of your life?

No, I have never 'cut' a sibling out of my life. I can see that it may be necessary in certain circumstances, but equally, I think that one can achieve the same effect by less dramatic means.

Each to their own I guess. I just don't see the need to inflict that kind of pain on a parent. Out of interest are you a parent?

Pollycat

happyandcontented wrote: »

No, I have never 'cut' a sibling out of my life. I can see that it may be necessary in certain circumstances, but equally, I think that one can achieve the same effect by less dramatic means.

Then you perhaps don't understand how toxic a relationship between you and another sibling can be.
And how much a relief it is when you do 'cut' that sibling out of your life.
Please enlarge on your 'less dramatic means'.

happyandcontented wrote: »

Each to their own I guess. I just don't see the need to inflict that kind of pain on a parent. Out of interest are you a parent?

The OP's parent is inflicting pain on the OP by asking her to commit to something that she does not want to do.
It's a 2 way street.

No, I'm not a parent.
But if I was, I'd hope that I'd behave like my parent has done and not attempt to coerce and guilt-trip one of my children to do something that they clearly don't want to do.

happyandcontented

Pollycat wrote: »

Then you perhaps don't understand how toxic a relationship between you and another sibling can be.
And how much a relief it is when you do 'cut' that sibling out of your life.
Please enlarge on your 'less dramatic means'.

As I said I do understand that in some circumstances it may be necessary to do the rather dramatic 'cutting all ties' very obviously and clearly with a sibling. Less dramatic means would be to allow the relationship to slide, being civil when required, but not engaging with them on a social level and putting some distance between you and them.

Pollycat wrote: »

The OP's parent is inflicting pain on the OP by asking her to commit to something that she does not want to do.
It's a 2 way street.

Of course, it is a two-way street but the point I am trying to make is that the OP can, if she wishes, pay lip service to trying to maintain a relationship with her sibling and then at the time it becomes necessary she can gauge what her level of involvement should be, if any.

Pollycat wrote: »

No, I'm not a parent.
But if I was, I'd hope that I'd behave like my parent has done and not attempt to coerce and guilt-trip one of my children to do something that they clearly don't want to do.

Then perhaps you don't understand the emotional need to see your children have a relationship after you have gone? The motives you assign to the issues are not there, they are simpler, baser, not manipulative. You want to feel that these children whom you love dearly and whom you created have a tie to their birth family.

I reiterate there are some circumstances where that is undesirable, but in general, I think most parents feel that way. When it doesn't pan out that way due to petty issues or stubbornness it can be heart-wrenching for the parents who feel torn in two by the children involved.

Only the OP knows which side of the divide her relationships with both her brother and mother fall on and only she can decide the right course of action. It has to be one that she is comfortable with from both aspects.

I suspect we will have to agree to disagree on this one but I have seen this first hand with a friend and her children.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

Pollycat wrote: »

Why shouldn't the OP say this?

The OP's Mum is trying to coerce her into agreeing to look out for him - why should the OP be put under this unwanted pressure? Be made to feel guilty for saying 'no'.

It's how she feels anyway - she says she couldn't care less about him.

It might give the OP's Mum pause about her own enabling behaviour towards this man.



Personally, I'd rather be blunt and tell my Mum the truth than lie to her face and do the opposite when she's not here anymore.

I like plain speaking myself, but the mother is clearly in total denial over the son's behaviour, and blunt statements do not, in my experience, shock them into facing the truth. I saw this with a friend in an abusive relationship; everytime his unacceptable behaviour was pointed out to her, she'd make excuses for him. She eventually finished with him, but had to come to her own realisation.

It's a generalisation I know, but mothers can be unnecessarily over-protective of sons, throughout adult life. The expectations on daughters are often different (mainly along the "it's your duty to act as carer" line). Anyone remember the classic scene in Corrie when, after decades of defending him, Vera had to finally face up to the fact that her son Terry was an irredeemable Wrong Un?

There's no need to add drama to an already stressful situation, that's why I'd advise the OP to not upset her mum with strong words like "he will be dead to me". Just calmly repeat something like "I cannot commit to supporting anyone who refuses to acknowledge and change their damaging behaviour".

The advice about getting mum to think about PoA is very good.

Deano777

I really feel for you, Ive been there and its not easy.

My brother has always leeched off of my parents, never worked, selfish, always lived at home and has a serious gambling problem. My mum passed away years ago, my dad 2 years ago he was then forced to stand on his own 2 feet. He didn't though, continued to gamble his food money and rent away. After months of trying to help and him denying he has a problem Ive washed my hands of him. He will never change just expect everyone to wipe his a**e all the time.

People may judge me but I say he is an adult not a child and he can look after himself. So is your brother and if he can behave himself long enough for his girlfriend he is as manipulative as my brother and can change if he wants to. He doesn't have to now because he has your mum to feed his behaviour.

I would help my brother if he admitted he had a problem and wanted help, maybe you would for your brother too. I say tell your mum you will look after him but its between you two, hes not to know. I know its a lie but it will keep her happy and she will know no different.

Pollycat

happyandcontented wrote: »

Then perhaps you don't understand the emotional need to see your children have a relationship after you have gone? The motives you assign to the issues are not there, they are simpler, baser, not manipulative. You want to feel that these children whom you love dearly and whom you created have a tie to their birth family.

Perhaps I don't.
But equally, perhaps you don't understand the emotional need to preserve your sanity by cutting a sibling out of your life.

happyandcontented wrote: »

No, I have never 'cut' a sibling out of my life. I can see that it may be necessary in certain circumstances, but equally, I think that one can achieve the same effect by less dramatic means.

And the OP did say in her first post:

little_pigeon wrote: »

I wanted to hear from those who have cut ties from family members. How did you cope? He is basically my only family so it does feel scary to think that I will be on my own. My friends circle is also in a stage of upheaval and change so it does worry me that I could be truly alone. I am currently single with no kids so this probably magnifies the feeling! I can't see how to maintain a relationship with him because I can't bear his company and his "the whole world has got it in for me or owes me something" attitude.

Anyone care to share their experience?

happyandcontented wrote: »

I suspect we will have to agree to disagree on this one but I have seen this first hand with a friend and her children.

I don't suspect, I know.
I have experienced it first-hand with me and my Mum.

Pollycat

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

I like plain speaking myself, but the mother is clearly in total denial over the son's behaviour, and blunt statements do not, in my experience, shock them into facing the truth. I saw this with a friend in an abusive relationship; everytime his unacceptable behaviour was pointed out to her, she'd make excuses for him. She eventually finished with him, but had to come to her own realisation.

It's a generalisation I know, but mothers can be unnecessarily over-protective of sons, throughout adult life. The expectations on daughters are often different (mainly along the "it's your duty to act as carer" line). Anyone remember the classic scene in Corrie when, after decades of defending him, Vera had to finally face up to the fact that her son Terry was an irredeemable Wrong Un?

There's no need to add drama to an already stressful situation, that's why I'd advise the OP to not upset her mum with strong words like "he will be dead to me". Just calmly repeat something like "I cannot commit to supporting anyone who refuses to acknowledge and change their damaging behaviour".

The advice about getting mum to think about PoA is very good.

My view is that if the OP tells a white lie now to her Mum that she will look out for her brother, then when the sad time comes and her Mum is dying, she will bring this up and the OP will find it much harder to renege on a promise made then than if she stands her ground now.

Where have the words "he will be dead to me" come from?
Not from me.
Please don't put words in my mouth.

tooldle

I am in a similar situation. To preserve my sanity i had no contact withmy sibling for over ten years. Then my dad died and my mum had to go into a care home (dementia). My mum expects me to look after the sibling and is voiciferous about this, often in front of sibling. Do not muddy the waters with your mum as this will not resolve matters unless your are certain of what is being said to the sibling. My sibling seizes any statement from our mum to demonstrate expectation. To my eyes this is not a matter of keeping mum happy, more setting the siblings expectation of future contact and assistance.
I have found over the years these discussions are difficult, as many people do not experience such poisonous relationships within their own families, and hence find it hard to understand just how loaded the dice can be.
I wish you luck op.