No paperwork for load bearing wall.What do I do?

LouLou33_2

Hi all! We are first time buyers and almost there with exchanging contract. It has cropped up however that a load bearing wall was removed joining the living and dining room and there’s no paper work behind it. It was done pre 2004 as that’s when the previous owner moved in and started renting it. The survey came back fine apart from saying to obtain paperwork for this, structurally sound though. Appearance wise it’s in good nick and on the ceiling you can see where a beam might be inside encased in plasterboard.
We don’t know whether our solicitor is being overcautious recommending getting it checked as it has stood the rest of time or if we need to get someone to look at it? Please help! !!!128553;!!!129300;

LouLou33_2

I!!!8217;ve got a pic but can!!!8217;t seem to add it on? Xxx

dunroving

LouLou33 wrote: »

Hi all! We are first time buyers and almost there with exchanging contract. It has cropped up however that a load bearing wall was removed joining the living and dining room and there’s no paper work behind it. It was done pre 2004 as that’s when the previous owner moved in and started renting it. The survey came back fine apart from saying to obtain paperwork for this, structurally sound though. Appearance wise it’s in good nick and on the ceiling you can see where a beam might be inside encased in plasterboard.
We don’t know whether our solicitor is being overcautious recommending getting it checked as it has stood the rest of time or if we need to get someone to look at it? Please help! !!!128553;!!!129300;

While there is an intuitively attractive argument to the fact that if something hasn't fallen down in 14 years, it's probably structurally sound, will you get a loan on this property?

How do you know there is no paperwork, and does this mean paperwork has been lost, or was never obtained? (I presume you mean building warrants, etc.)?

Davesnave

None of us could tell you anything, even with a picture.


If there is no record at the council to say that building regs approval was obtained and signed off, then you either (1) insist on exposing the steel and have it checked by a structural engineer at your expense, or(2) you buy a 'pig in a poke.' The vendor will not be keen on option 1, especially if you find something you don't like and walk away......

As you say, it's likely to be adequate if there is no cracking after all this time.

No doubt someone will offer you some indemnity insurance.

Me, I'd rather know that the people who did structural work on my house didn't ignore the rules, but everyone will have their own take on this. How unique the house is should be a factor too. I replaced a 7m steel in my current house, because, like the shampoo ad of old, it was "worth it."

jimbog

There must be hundred of thousands of homes in the UK where they knocked through between the living and dining rooms in the 1960s and 70s with no paperwork trial.

Try using a hand held pipe detector to check for steels

PasturesNew

There is no such thing as a "test of time" - time is as long as a piece of string... maybe the disruption of you moving in and moving all your furniture about will be "the final straw".

How lucky do you feel?

This is really important. You can't just brush it off, or hope .... we're talking about the potential of the house collapsing, or part collapsing... being sold by somebody who didn't have to worry about it because they didn't live there.

It might be all right - but your lender wouldn't like it and might block the mortgage. And would you really sleep at night? 3am.... what's that noise? 11pm trotting up to bed "floor feels odd/wonky"....

Cakeguts

Did this property appear to be "good value for money?" Anyone who tries to buy this property is going to come up against the same problem. So in this case the seller will have to do something about proving that it is safe.



You might want to look for something else because this one has problems that you aren't going to be able to solve.

Tom99

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Hopefully there is steel rather than paperwork behind it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Pre 2004 could mean anytime, the 1960's when building regs for such stuff did not even exist.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]If the survey is clean I think opening it up is unnecessary.[/FONT]

Doozergirl

Davesnave wrote: »

None of us could tell you anything, even with a picture.


If there is no record at the council to say that building regs approval was obtained and signed off, then you either (1) insist on exposing the steel and have it checked by a structural engineer at your expense, or(2) you buy a 'pig in a poke.' The vendor will not be keen on option 1, especially if you find something you don't like and walk away......

As you say, it's likely to be adequate if there is no cracking after all this time.

No doubt someone will offer you some indemnity insurance.

Me, I'd rather know that the people who did structural work on my house didn't ignore the rules, but everyone will have their own take on this. How unique the house is should be a factor too. I replaced a 7m steel in my current house, because, like the shampoo ad of old, it was "worth it."

With Option 1, if it were an undersized support, then the worst case remedy is the cost of building control, a structural engineer, a couple of builders for half a day, plastering and paint. Cost perhaps £1,000. There isn't really a more expensive option than that for a simple knock through where sufficient bearings for a steel are in place.

In our house, there is a wooden joist holding up a knock-through. It isn't sufficient to pass current Building Control, but nor is much else in the house - every joist in the 1930s house would be considered undersized against current regs. We had our structural engineer take a look and he passed it as sufficient, we ignored the need for building control.

One hopes that buyers can pragmatic about it. Some will run at any work at all, even just exposing it. It's ridiculous, imo - owning a house comes with the responsibility of maintaining the structure - get used to it!

Once exposed, there's a bit of plasterwork patching to be done. If the joist is seriously undersized then current owner can either reduce the price or have the work done. The likely scenario is that it's sufficient to hold the load as it has been doing.