UKCPM - PCN issued for not displaying permit

Guys_Dad

I would bring the link below to the attention of the management company. http://www.lease-assn.org/members/leasehold-information-sheets/lease-variations.php

If you look at When might lease variation be required. point 3 ask them if they sought and obtained 75% leaseholder agreement. If not, that could be a court defence point. Your landlord can tell if they had been consulted.

NeilCr

Guys_Dad wrote: »

I would bring the link below to the attention of the management company. http://www.lease-assn.org/members/leasehold-information-sheets/lease-variations.php

If you look at When might lease variation be required. point 3 ask them if they sought and obtained 75% leaseholder agreement. If not, that could be a court defence point. Your landlord can tell if they had been consulted.

Yes.

Although from a director's POV I am not entirely convinced by this 75% rule!

As I said I'd be asking the Managing Agent what authority was used to introduce the PPC. As a tenant you wouldn't have had to be consulted (if there was a need for consultation). Also, who the contract is between - it may be the MA is not party to it. It could be a Management Company (if the residents own the freehold) or a freeholder.

It would be worth checking if there is a Management Company as, then, there will be resident directors and it might be that one of those would be able/have authority to cancel the PCNs.

Getting hold of a copy of the lease will certainly help - plus a chat with your landlord

sparky8888

Thanks Guys Dad and NeilCr for the links and info on lease variation.

The more research I do, the clearer it becomes who is who. This is what I know so far:

1. Freehold: Freehold Managers Ltd.
2. Leaseholders: The residents of each property. Not all apartments are rented, in fact most on the development are not. The lease holders live there themselves. I have spoken to them, and they were never consulted about it's introduction.
3. My landlord is a lease holder. I'm not all that clued up on this, but from looking on Companies House (link kindly provided by Thorsson), it looks like there is a Resident Director company establishd, of which my Landlord is a director of with one other resident. Note that the development has 8 properties.
4. I am a tenant, at the property in the development that my landord is a leaseholder.
5. The Management Company 'appointed' by the resident directors are XXX (redacted - is it ok to name the MC here?). According to Companies House, they are the Secretary of the Resident Director company.

There are only 8 addresses at the estate, so I am not sure the 75% rule applies. However, I will still include a statement in my letter to them as to whether any leases were so varied in the introduction of the PPC.

I am 99% sure that the contract is between the Management Company and the PPC, and not between the freeholder, any of the lease holders, or the Resident Director company. Of course I will not know this for sure until I have access to the contract - working on getting that!.

I have spoken with my landlord about this. He escalated to the issue to MC on my behalf asking for the PCN to be cancelled. The response he got from the MC was that there is nothing they can do and it's in the hands of the PPC, and stated that any further appeals must only be delt with directly with the PPC. -- This is of course is complete rubbish, since they are jointly and severally liable for their clients actions.

I still need to write to the free holders, asking them if they have provided any consent or authority that allows the Management Company (if they are the ones) to form a contract with UK CPM to operate at this development. In speaking with other lease holders, I am pretty confident they know nothing about this introduction. Does anyone know of a template letter I can use as a base for this?

NeilCr

Okay

If the residents own the freehold then they would often form a management company. Usually called something along the lines of the building/development. For example Fawlty Towers Management Company!

They would, likely, then appoint a Managing Agent to carry out most of the work for them. That would include the secretaryship and the Managing Agent would appear as that on Companies House.

Which, pretty much, sounds like what has happened here - and that is how we work. We don't have a separate freeholder (builder handed that over to us) so I am not entirely sure where Freehold Managers Ltd come in. Does anyone pay anything to them?

If this is the set up then I am surprised your Landlord (as a resident director) doesn't know why this happened. The chain of command is the Management Company telling the Managing Agent what to do. After all they employ them

It would be helpful to know the name of the Management Company and Managing Agent

System

If the residents own the freehold

It's not quite that simple. Even if they did own the freehold earlier owners may have given away certain rights in return for cash. Any asset can be "sliced/diced" for an income for parties.

It will come down to the parties to the UKCPM contract which has an indemnity clause in it. And even then it will depend on the judge on the day.

sparky8888

The residents DO NOT own the land, the freeholders do, they are as mentioned above, Freehold Managing Plc. I am going to obtain the freehold from Land Registry to prove they are the legal owners of the land - it's only 3.00, so no biggie.

The residents, including my landlord, pay the freeholders (Freehold Managing Plc) monies for the upkeep of the property, NOT the management company.

I am not sure where the actual Managing Agent (HES Estate Management Ltd.) come into it, but they are the ones who do the physical arrangement of getting in contractors to undertake the maintenance. I have no idea who pays them though. It's not the residents, so can only assume it's the free holders.

NeilCr

Okay. Fair enough

It was your mention of the residents as directors and their company that threw me. Not sure where they come into it at all then - unless they are advisory - but then they wouldn't need a company

If it is as you say the freeholder will employ the Managing Agent - from the service charges collected from the leaseholders, most likely.

Guys_Dad

You seem to say that your landlord is a director of the Freehold company. He is therefore enabled to instruct the management company that the Freehold company employ to cancel the ticket.

As there are less than 9 leaseholders, your position is even better. From the link I provided above, see this

Application to the FTT to have a number of leases varied
Under Section 37 of the LTA an application can be made to an FTT in respect of two or more leases for variation and the changes can only be achieved if all of the leases are varied to the same effect.

Where the application to the tribunal is in respect of less than nine leases, all leaseholders or all but one must consent.

sparky8888

You seem to say that your landlord is a director of the Freehold company.

No, no, no.. that is not true.

The freeholders are Freehold Mangers Plc. My landord is not a director of that company. He is the a Directory of the Resident Director company, with one other resident. I can't give you the name of the company as it would identify him.

Then there is the Managing Agent. They are HES Estate Management Ltd. These are the ones that managed the running of the development, and it is believe these also hold the contract with UKCPM.

Guys_Dad

I haven't a clue what a "Resident Director company" is. Just what does this company do????

Residents can form a company and take over a freehold from previous freeholders and I have experience of this, but not sure where the Resident Director company fits in.

Nonetheless, the freeholders can't just impose new t&c without agreement with leaseholders.