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Excel parking charge notice

dufflers
Posts: 79 Forumite
Hello, I am new to the forum and this is my first PCN so excuse my naivety.
On 1st June I parked in the excel car park in the Swansea SA1 area, entered my details onto the ringo app and came back to a PCN. Having checked my details, I realised I'd entered half of my old vehicle reg and half of my new vehicle reg as it was brand new and I wasn't paying attention.
Being the naive fool i replied immediately to the notice and outed myself as the driver explaining how the mistake happened, sent them proof of the ticket and expected it to be dealt with.
Obviously now i know where i went wrong, in either case the car is a hire purchase and i understand i needed to tell them i was the driver anyway.
I am at the stage where they have sent me a notice of intended court proceedings, afaik not a letter before claim (please educate me if that's not right) and I would like any advice as to whether I need to reply to this letter or wait for a solicitor's letter before i respond.
I've had a look at several posts and tried to read as much as i can into the newbie thread, I also read an almost identical case from another user who went to court. If needed I can post the defence here (as I'm confident it covers all my circumstances pretty comprehensively).
Finally I thought I'd mention that I haven't appealed to the IAS as I'd read that they were effectively a kangaroo court and POPLA wasn't available since they aren't part of the BPA anymore. I also wrote a letter to my MP
Any information as to what I need to do next would be much appreciated, as i said i'm just not clear whether a NOITCP is the same as a LBCCC and whether it requires a response.
Thanks for your time.
On 1st June I parked in the excel car park in the Swansea SA1 area, entered my details onto the ringo app and came back to a PCN. Having checked my details, I realised I'd entered half of my old vehicle reg and half of my new vehicle reg as it was brand new and I wasn't paying attention.
Being the naive fool i replied immediately to the notice and outed myself as the driver explaining how the mistake happened, sent them proof of the ticket and expected it to be dealt with.
Obviously now i know where i went wrong, in either case the car is a hire purchase and i understand i needed to tell them i was the driver anyway.
I am at the stage where they have sent me a notice of intended court proceedings, afaik not a letter before claim (please educate me if that's not right) and I would like any advice as to whether I need to reply to this letter or wait for a solicitor's letter before i respond.
I've had a look at several posts and tried to read as much as i can into the newbie thread, I also read an almost identical case from another user who went to court. If needed I can post the defence here (as I'm confident it covers all my circumstances pretty comprehensively).
Finally I thought I'd mention that I haven't appealed to the IAS as I'd read that they were effectively a kangaroo court and POPLA wasn't available since they aren't part of the BPA anymore. I also wrote a letter to my MP
Any information as to what I need to do next would be much appreciated, as i said i'm just not clear whether a NOITCP is the same as a LBCCC and whether it requires a response.
Thanks for your time.
0
Comments
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all you had to do was name yourself as the following
hirer/lessee/keeper
they had no idea who was driving until you blabbed (hence the 5th amendment in the US of A)
as to this letter, if it contained a financial information form and a deadline of 30 days to reply (under the new PaP guidelines of oct 2017) then treat it as an LBC and construct your own (as was mentioned earlier in this other thread)
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5760624/excel-parking-fines&page=2
read this one too
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5862411/bw-legal-letter-of-claim0 -
Ok thank you for the links, this letter doesn't contain any of the PaP information, and only advises that i have not appealed with IAS and that if I don't reply by 03/08 it could lead to further proceedings. When it gets to that stage i'll draft up my own LBC and post it here.
As to the named driver incident, because it was my first PCN I just assumed they'd be reasonable....
never falling for that trap again.. but what's done is done.
In any case, the post I'd read previously was identical to mine in that they also named the driver, and the judge ruled that the ticket had been paid for (albeit with the wrong registration) and should have been settled once i'd responded to them.0 -
Hi all, I have reached the "Letter of Claim" stage of this farce and would just like to confirm that what I've read is correct (Newbies guide etc) please excuse dumb questions, I always find that if i ask more questions and make less assumptions I'll be less likely to fail.
So it's the generic LBC with a reply letter, income and expenditure form (we'll ignore that) and a bunch of information about their intention to go to court, how much I allegedly owe and how to arrange a payment plan.
Am I right in thinking this is where I wait until a few days before the deadline then respond robustly with a SAR included for good measure?
If so, I've drafted a great response from the forum (thanks RedX).
Also just for clarity would you recommend sending this response via email?
Thanks0 -
I think I would be inclined to send the SAR to the PPC as soon as possible - to give you the maximum time to deal with the response.
On the other hand, perhaps delaying the response to the Letter of Claim to fit your timetable - remember Christmas is close - is not a bad idea.
Email for both of those is fine.0 -
OK, I'll send them a nice present for Christmas day then
Here's the draft
Dear Sirs,
I am in receipt of your Letter of Claim of 10th December 2018.
Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon.
Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.
Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 6 and 7) Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.
As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and your client, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter of Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.
Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.
I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:
1. An explanation of the cause of action
2. Whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. Whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. What the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1;establishing yourself as the creditor.
8. A plan showing where any signs were displayed
9. Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) ; Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.
Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.
Yours faithfully0 -
Hi all, having not heard anything for several months (and keeping an eye on this forum for when I did) I was surprised to find out that I've now been issued with a CCJ. I haven't had any letters or emails.
I've kept my address up to date with the DVLA, experian, banks etc and made sure that BW legal knew my correct address (I have a letter to my current address from them). I have a letter from Excel stating that all correspondence should go through BW. I've been made aware that Excel withdrew the claim back from BWL and made the claim themselves..
I found this out today, I haven't been able to contact the court yet to dispute what's happened but do I stand much of a chance?
tl;dr excel made claim with my old address and now i have a CCJ despite keeping all addresses up to date with BWL and DVLA/experian0 -
Yes, you have a VERY high chance. We see almost every parking firm CCJ set aside here. What you describe is clearly abuse of your data and you certainly have grounds to set the CCJ aside then defend the case once reset, and to ask the Judge to award your set aside fee back from Excel.
We assume you've started to read the NEWBIES thread again, about set asides.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
I've been reading about my options and contacted the court for both the particulars of claim and the N244 form.
I'll work on drafting up a statement and will post it here, but will I need to pay the £255 before I send this off?
It's not a small amount of cash to pay0 -
You will have to send or pay £255 with the N244. It can go direct to your local court if they will accept it rather than use the CCBC as a middle man, causing delay.
It's not a small amount of cash we agree, horrible isn't it, that filing the claim cost the PPC about £25 and yet victims have to pay £255 to pull it back to defend. Complain to your MP, please!
Read other set aside threads to see about the 6 point order we now suggest (not sure it's in the linked examples in the NEWBIES thread yet). In that draft order you will be proposing that the Judge orders your fees and costs for attending a set aside hearing to be paid or 'reserved' until the main hearing (giving you the chance to reclaim them).
Search the forum for set aside £255 six point draft order
Show us your draft order and witness statement in support of the N244. Make it clear that the Claimant and their erstwhile solicitors knew or should have known what your address for service was, and have misused old address data. This will be key to a Judge realising it's not your fault.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
If they do press on with the original claim, consider a counter claim for your time and stress. Especially if you can prove that they were aware of your new address. also inform the SRA about BWLs failure to update their records
https://www.sra.org.uk/
Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so consider complaining to your MP.
Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.
Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted
Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.
Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so consider complaining to your MP.
Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.
Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted
Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.You never know how far you can go until you go too far.0
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