IAS Appeal worth it?

Bezzawezza

Hi

My wife has had a ticket from Car Parking Management (UK) Ltd for parking in a controlled car park that we pay a monthly fee to park in. On the day in question though she had failed to change over the monthly permit so the one being displayed was technically out of date even though our payments were up to date.

We appealed the charge on the grounds of mitigating circumstances as there had been a family emergency (genuinely happened and I offered copies of the insurance records to evidence this) which caused us to forget to change over the permit.

The appeal was received by CPM on 13th June and we had the letter advising the appeal had been rejected on 18th July (letter dated 16th). As this period exceeds the 28 days the ticket states an appeal would take is this enough to get the IAS to overturn the decision?

Coupon-mad

You should know from reading the NEWBIES FAQS thread first, not to try IAS.

Come back at claim stage, where these are winnable, not at kangaroo court stage.

Bezzawezza

Okay but I was concerned this may be out of date. Their ticket makes is very clear that if I fail to pay they will seek our details via the DVLA (although they have these now anyway after we appealed). If they aren't part of the correct body how can they state they will do this?
Consequently I wondered if anything had changed. I'd also read another thread advising that the IAS was really easy to appeal to and rule in the parker's favour frequently. Is that incorrect?
My apologies if this is covered in the newbie thread but that's quite lengthy and I found it difficult to follow with all of the various permutations.
I suppose my question now is that if they've rejected the appeal and an IAS appeal a pointless affair what are my options? It seems to be a choice between paying or gambling with being taken to court. Not ever having a charge previously I'm not familiar with the stages sorry so not certain what you mean by "claim stage".

KeithP

Bezzawezza wrote: »

...I was concerned this may be out of date.

Do you mean the Newbies thread might be out of date?
Why would you think that?
Post #1 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread was last updated on 8th July this year.

Bezzawezza wrote: »

I'd also read another thread advising that the IAS was really easy to appeal to and rule in the parker's favour frequently. Is that incorrect?

Please be kind enough to point out exactly where you read that.
It needs changing.

Bezzawezza wrote: »

I suppose my question now is that if they've rejected the appeal and an IAS appeal a pointless affair what are my options? It seems to be a choice between paying or gambling with being taken to court. Not ever having a charge previously I'm not familiar with the stages sorry so not certain what you mean by "claim stage".

Yes, you have summed up your options quite well and no-one here will suggest paying.

The 'claim stage' starts when you receive either a Letter of Claim or official court correspondence indicating that a Claim has been filed against you.
If/when that happens, it is then time to read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread and then post again here if you require further guidance.

There really is nothing more to do at this stage other than ignore debt collector's letters - as described in post #4 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

Bezzawezza

I feel like this is going down a path I didn't envisage. My apologies if I have come across as another newbie that wants all of the work done for him. That isn't the case, I was just reading conflicting information and after some guidance specific to my circumstances.

In honesty, in my eagerness to get the information I required I missed the date on the sticky thread that you've pointed out. I only saw the date in 2013 where the thread had started. I also read after reading this (apologies, I'm not allowed to post links as not been a member long enough, the thread is titled "PCM (IAS) - IAS Appeal Successful (Thanks!)" perhaps you can find it somehow) which appears to suggest that appeals to IAS are really easy. Having read more threads on here now it would seem that an appeal to IAS is pointless.
I think we are left with a choice of paying the fine at the reduced rate or chancing a court request it seems.

KeithP

PCM (IAS) - IAS Appeal Successful (Thanks!)

That was a really old thread you read - from 2014.
It uses arguments that are no longer applicable since Beavis.

Indeed your choice is either pay up or wait for the court papers.

Redx

Bezzawezza wrote: »

I'm not allowed to post links as not been a member long enough, the thread is titled "PCM (IAS) - IAS Appeal Successful (Thanks!)" perhaps you can find it somehow) which appears to suggest that appeals to IAS are really easy.


Having read more threads on here now it would seem that an appeal to IAS is pointless.

I think we are left with a choice of paying the fine at the reduced rate or chancing a court request it seems.

that thread is almost 4 years old and a lot has happened since then , including the fact that the MP,s have denounced all the people and companies involved in that sc@m

here is the 4 year old thread to be ignored

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5065113/pcm-ias-ias-appeal-successful-thanks

I would suggest to you that there is no "fine" because no private company can "fine" you, they have no authority to do so

they can issue an INVOICE, which is what they have done

my thoughts are , LET A JUDGE DECIDE, if the PPC is stupid enough to try an MCOL within the 6 years timescale allowed

Quentin

Bezzawezza wrote: »

I think we are left with a choice of paying the fine at the reduced rate or chancing a court request it seems.

As is always the case!!

This forum hasn't said that though!

Why would you want to pay for something you already paid out for??

Follow the (up to date) advice in the Newbies FAQ thread and ignore everything except a lbcca or Court correspondence

In the unlikely event that this happens come back for advice on how to deal with it at that time.

(And note that you haven't been fined! You have an invoice you dispute!)

waamo

Odds of court http://www.parkingappeals.info/companydata/Car_Park_Management_Services_CPMS.html

Bezzawezza

Thanks all for your comments. Reading some of the stuff you!!!8217;ve all kindly linked to can I ask one last question?
If the car park in question has no bays lined out is that a clear case to kick the fine out? Or is that only relevant if we are accused of parking outside of lines?
We are charged with failing to display the permit which is true but I!!!8217;m wondering if the lack of lines, fact we!!!8217;ve paid for the permit regardless and their inability to respond in the 28 days would give me a strong argument if it does go to court.
I!!!8217;m a worst case scenario kind of guy so trying to piece together my argument in the event that I do decide to go the whole way and they decide to take me to court.

Redx

signage including lines can be a part of the defence

but as their charge is specific then the main thrust of the defence will be the following

NO STANDING to bring a court case
NO LANDOWNER CONTRACT
FRUSTRATION OF CONTRACT

de minimis - they should have cancelled when proof of a parking contract was given as there was no loss - the fact is that paper permits are old school and they should ideally have added the VRM to a whitelist on their computers showing that they know that the vehicle can park there


clear signage and line markings can be an extra defence point , as can NOT THE SAME AS BEAVIS etc too