Kids savings account v overpaying mortgage

muhandis

Same here

IanManc wrote: »

I don't know why you're laughing OP.

You would be the trustee of your daughter's money in your daughter's account, so Zorillo's right when he/she asks if you're going to steal it back.

Apparently you think sealing from your daughter is funny.

I'm glad you're not my dad.

muhandis

That's great! :beer:

IanManc wrote: »

Now that made me laugh. :beer:

ValiantSon

muhandis wrote: »

Haha, 'steal it back' when I'm still the trustee

That comment suggests that you don't undersand the nature of being a trustee. You are obliged to act in the best interest of the child, and may not use the money as if it were your own.

If you put the money into your daughter's account it stops being your money and becomes hers. She has an inalienable right to that money, as you have gifted it to her.

It is illegal to use a child's account as you are proposing.

muhandis

I perfectly understand. In our opinion, for the next good few years, the best interests of my (now) 18 month old daughter coincide perfectly with our financial health as a family. You might not share that opinion, but that isn't your decision to make.

As far as we are concerned, saving money on interest, having better flexibility of access to cash, etc are all in her best interests. As her parents, whether you like it or not, we have the right to decide that.

You are entitled to your opinion and if you think that is illegal, we'll agree to disagree. I came on here to get an idea of what the implications were of doing what I was proposing, I got some helpful replies and I am grateful for that. :money:

ValiantSon wrote: »

That comment suggests that you don't undersand the nature of being a trustee. You are obliged to act in the best interest of the child, and may not use the money as if it were your own.

If you put the money into your daughter's account it stops being your money and becomes hers. She has an inalienable right to that money, as you have gifted it to her.

It is illegal to use a child's account as you are proposing.

Kamelo_2

I think the point you are missing is that your intentions breach the terms and conditions of the account in that once given the money ceases to be yours, you are merely a trustee of her money. At some point in the future if you want to reclaim the money then your daughter would have to give it back to you rather than you just taking it.
If you just took it without her permission then you have, in effect, stolen it. Whilst it is unlikely to incur a visit from the police, your daughter could chose to sue you for the money and she would be successful.

muhandis

I get it. I got it early on in the thread when one of the posters very helpfully highlighted that the money would be my daughter's, with me looking after it as a trustee. I then looked up what being a trustee meant.

That was followed by some unnecessarily patronising and flippant comments to which I replied in a similar vein.

At the risk of stating the obvious, I will of course do my best to not do anything that would be illegal, just to save a bit of money.

Kamelo wrote: »

I think the point you are missing is that your intentions breach the terms and conditions of the account in that once given the money ceases to be yours, you are merely a trustee of her money. At some point in the future if you want to reclaim the money then your daughter would have to give it back to you rather than you just taking it.
If you just took it without her permission then you have, in effect, stolen it. Whilst it is unlikely to incur a visit from the police, your daughter could chose to sue you for the money and she would be successful.

ValiantSon

muhandis wrote: »

I perfectly understand. In our opinion, for the next good few years, the best interests of my (now) 18 month old daughter coincide perfectly with our financial health as a family. You might not share that opinion, but that isn't your decision to make.

You clearly don't understand. The law is very clear: the money becomes hers, and you cannot use it as if it were yours. It isn't a matter of what my personal view is, I'm talking about what the law says!

muhandis wrote: »

As far as we are concerned, saving money on interest, having better flexibility of access to cash, etc are all in her best interests. As her parents, whether you like it or not, we have the right to decide that.

No you don't. Once the money is given to her, you cannot use it as if it were your own. It really is very simple.

muhandis wrote: »

You are entitled to your opinion and if you think that is illegal, we'll agree to disagree.

Again, this isn't my opinion, it is the legal position! No, I'm not going to agree to disagree; the law is very clear about beneficial ownership and bare trusts. You are proposing to behave contrary to the law. This is not a grey area where we can agree to disagree.

muhandis wrote: »

I came on here to get an idea of what the implications were of doing what I was proposing, I got some helpful replies and I am grateful for that. :money:

Yes, and one of the implications is that the money no longer belongs to you, and you cannot use it as if it does. Doing so would be theft.

ValiantSon

muhandis wrote: »

I get it. I got it early on in the thread when one of the posters very helpfully highlighted that the money would be my daughter's, with me looking after it as a trustee. I then looked up what being a trustee meant.

That was followed by some unnecessarily patronising and flippant comments to which I replied in a similar vein.

My comments were neither patronising, nor flippant. You didn't like them because they didn't fit with what you wanted to do.

Too often people come on here with a half-baked plan and ask us what we think. When we tell them that it is half-baked and point out the problems and pitfalls they take umbrage and start getting shirty about it. If you don't want honest answers, then don't ask the question!

muhandis wrote: »

At the risk of stating the obvious, I will of course do my best to not do anything that would be illegal, just to save a bit of money.

Then don't use a children's savings account in the manner that you first suggested.

muhandis

God, you clearly don't get it.

Again, to state the obvious, I have no intention of breaking the law. Doesn't matter what you think my intentions are. Unless you are a legal professional giving me advice that I have solicited, it doesn't matter one jot to me what you think the law says.

If you feel so strongly about it, please go ahead and report me to the police.

PS: To me personally, your comments came across as patronising. Clearly, you don't feel that way, which is absolutely fine. Again, we'll agree to disagree.

ValiantSon wrote: »

You clearly don't understand. The law is very clear: the money becomes hers, and you cannot use it as if it were yours. It isn't a matter of what my personal view is, I'm talking about what the law says!

No you don't. Once the money is given to her, you cannot use it as if it were your own. It really is very simple.

Again, this isn't my opinion, it is the legal position! No, I'm not going to agree to disagree; the law is very clear about beneficial ownership and bare trusts. You are proposing to behave contrary to the law. This is not a grey area where we can agree to disagree.

Yes, and one of the implications is that the money no longer belongs to you, and you cannot use it as if it does. Doing so would be theft.

ValiantSon

muhandis wrote: »

God, you clearly don't get it.

No, I get it perfectly! You just don't like being told that your plan has a major flaw.

muhandis wrote: »

The law is very clear and I have no intention of breaking it. Doesn't matter what you think my intentions are. Unless you are a legal professional giving me advice that I have solicited, it doesn't matter one jot to me what you think the law says.

I'm not saying what I think the law says, I'm saying what it actually does say!

Don't ask questions if you don't want honest answers. If you want everyone to say what a great idea it is then go to one of the other boards, rather than one that is frequented by people who actually know something about savings and investments (including the legal framework).

I don't need to ponder what your intentions are, you made them clear in your opening post. You said, "The way I see it, it would be better to open an account in my 18 month old daughters [sic] name and use it to hold any cash that I would otherwise use to overpay my mortgage. I get a slightly better return and better yet still have access to that cash in case I need it." It is very clear, therefore that your intention was to use a children's savings account to profit from the advantageous interest rate and then take the money out to pay off your mortgage at a later date. That would be illegal.

Don't throw your toys out of the pram when you are - quite reasonably - told that you can't do this.

muhandis wrote: »

If you feel so strongly about it, please go ahead and report me to the police.

Fine, just provide me with your real name and address, plus the details of the account you are using, and evidence of you then withdrawing the money to pay off your mortgage and I will be happy to do so!

You are making a massive mountain out of a molehill. I advised you that - depsite previous warnings - you were still considering acting in the manner you first described, and that this really was illegal. You could simply have accepted what I said and done nothing, or even - heaven forbid - thanked me for stopping you from making a mistake. Instead you chose to get shirty and to pick an argument.