From Support Group to WRAG - consequences?

GotToChange

Hi all -
After over 5 years (to my shame) in the Support Group (#1 - Dec 2012 to May 2017, #2 - May 2017 to now [the assessment was June 25]), I have now been downgraded to the WRAG. I have yet to see what was written in the Report as I have not wanted to see it, until now - so I will be asking for it. I also sneakily recorded the interview, and have also not yet listened back to it and am of course aware that I cannot tell them that I recorded it - it was really so that I could remember what I had said/been asked. I can't really dispute anything until I read their report and listen and compare what was actually said. All grounds for my claim are based on mental health - I provided a referral letter for the Intesive Therapies Team but my GP Surgery unequivocally do NOT provide letters of support for Benefits, so cannot get their "help" anyway.



Apart from the obvious (and my main question)* - can anyone tell me what this will result in, in terms of losing eligibility to, say, WTC if I were (haha) able to get a job? Also the demands of complying with Work-Related Activities....? Which may also be difficult as I am probably going to lose my house (private rent) and become somewhat rootless.... (I have just managed to survive for these years, but losing about £100 a month will tip the precariously balanced scales in the wrong direction.)


I do intend to request a Mandatory Review (*but will I lose even more money?) and then Appeal when that inevitably fails - but I do remember reading on here that there are circumstances in which the original rate of ESA (Support Group) is still paid?? Or did I imagine that, which is not unheard of.....


Can anyone please help....?:(

Alice_Holt

Is your ESA contribution based or Income related?

Some info on work-focused interviews:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/employment-and-support-allowance/while-youre-getting-esa/about-the-esa-groups/

Info on the appeals process (relates to PIP, but the process is the same for ESA):
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal

I would think Reg 35 might be relevant to you:
http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/making-exception
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/2955-regulation-35-2-b-is-now-the-main-route-into-esa-support-group

It's a shame your surgery won't do letters. Would your Intensive Therapies Team be able to supply a letter to the effect that participating in WFI's would risk your health?
One possibility is to request your medical records (No charge post GDPR) and go though those to see if this would support your appeal.

Have you thought of applying for PIP?
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/

I don't fully understand your WTC question - if you referring to the disability element, have a read of this:
https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/disability-element

If you have been claiming ESA from before April 2017, your ESA rates will not vary. If you regain the Support Group at appeal - this will be at the same rate you were receiving previously.

GotToChange

Thank you so much for the information "Alice" (I know that's not your name)..... I feel sure it was in a post by you that I read about the previous ESA rate being paid (but I may be wrong)?


It is hard to believe that he deemed me eligible for anything other than SG, given what I (embarrassingly) revealed to him - I am a thousand times worse than I was even last year. I no longer recognise the person I once was.... One thing that really bothered me was that he was deaf/wearing two hearing aids - he did point it out to me - and I have concern that he did not pick up on the nuances of what I said. BUT, I will hold back on such thoughts until I have read the report. (This is in no way a slight against his disability - but he needed to be able to pick up on subltelties, I would have thought?)



Can you clarify Regulation 35 for me please?
(I have some very dark thoughts on daily basis and self-harm regularly and did reveal this; I am also fighting a battle with disordered "eating" and he physical effects of that.)


I applied for PIP last ?September (local Healthwatch advised me to); apparently my mistake was to attend alone (no choice - BUT the location was as the end of my road) and I had not at that time had he meeting with Mental Health, although have been in and out of the "system" for the last 10 years
I also went into "job interview mode" so it was semi-understandable that the person deemed me ineligible. I have gone through MR with this and now await a Tribunal date - but the only person who can go with me (moral support and transport - I cannot even do taxis anymore) may be going on a secondment for his work, so I have been told that I can request it be brought forward a little, but it is the Judge's discretion.



The Practice is not helpful at all - even though they say that ANYTHING I may ask for help with is attributable to mental health, they don't really help with that either..... apart from renewing prescriptions without a review and ignoring the fact that I was stockpiling them for an overdose.
I - being me - do have my records already.... didn't think I would be able to provide them as evidence though.


You're a star, thank you so much x

GotToChange

Sorry, forgot to say that it is Income-related, and yes, I have been getting it since (way before) 2017..... But I am losing around £20 per week, should this NOT happen?


I did think that it was a requirement to have been receiving ESA - SG (not WRAG) should i then (again, haha) find work and claim Working Tax Credits of some sort, especially any Disability "Premium". I will read your link.


Sorry again, you don't need to explain the Regulations to me - but I do probably need an ELI5 (Explain Like I'm 5). There were no points involved in last year's, but I guess there will be with this one, given the Group assigned.


I saw the "Access Team" for an assessment in April* and as a result of some internal process, I was told that I was a candidate for the Intensive Therapies Team (no GP involvement); I have thought I might call to see if there is something they could provide - but I would be afraid to read it :sad:




*I also provided this to the WCA for ESA (as it came about after the initial form had gone back to them. Again, seeing the Report might indicate if this counted for anything....) but have not actually seen anyone yet other than at the initial assessment.

Alice_Holt

Good luck with the PIP appeal.

You will find the PIP appeal guide directly helpful.
Are you getting help from a local advice agency?

Reg 35 is around significant risk to health if you had to attend WFI meetings, might be associated with severe social anxiety, agoraphobia, suicidal ideation under stress, etc.

Do you know why you were placed in the SG before?

Your medical records could also be useful for the PIP appeal. Go through them, and summarise any supporting / relevant info on a brief note with page references. You can then post a copy of both to the tribunal service as additional evidence.

This site may be helpful:
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/

Here are the PIP descriptors:
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system

This may also be useful for your PIP appeal:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/725533/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-assessment-criteria.pdf

GotToChange

Thank you Thank you..... I shall have a good read of all this and follow your suggestions.


There is a local advice centre in the next village and she has read through everything and believes my appeal will be successful; she told me that the fact that I went to the original appointment by myself (walked) overruled everything else. Plus I stupidly told the Assessor that I was TRYING to study with the OU (who were themselves giving me support) - as I said, I went into interview-mode. I was not at that time, getting any help from the Mental Health Team (although had previously and had provided letters and reports as proof) and this was taken to mean that I am "OK", not that could not engage with the Service... anyway.....
But now, even though I have not yet had the PIP Tribunal, I will try to ask for her help again with this ESA decision.


The reasons for SG before were around suicidal thoughts - which are now daily - but I guessthey think that there does come a point by when you should get on with it, or it isn't true.
(I told the Assessor that I have a tree picked out ---- like I said, he missed the nuances of what I was saying; he probably thought I meant "to plant", not hang myself from.)





Can I just ask again though. just to be sure before I query it with them *sigh* (the links seem to support this) - should I NOT be losing the £20?

The letter I have received is now saying something about Contributions based, which is NOT what I was receiving for the last x years, right up until, well, now....