Capability Hearing

palasmy

Hello

As expected the meeting with my Manager and HR today, was about offering me a 'settlement agreement'.

From what I could gather from the meeting and a subsequent meeting with my Manager again is as follows,

The company is no longer interested in my services because they feel I'm not up to the level
HR in my opinion was clearly involved right from the beginning, it is just that they probably thought I will go away on my own accord when scared with an unrealistic PIP
But when I showed interest in proving myself (which I did even today) they decided to move their next coin (to offer me SA).
Both the HR and the Manager's views were biased towards discouraging me to take the PIP route, at several instances i was made to feel that I will struggle in that process and won't be able to do it, rather the advise was to take the package and leave.
And when I asked whether such capability concerns would be raised across the floor as I know there are a number of people in similar positions as me at either similar skill set as me or slightly above but older, the answer was no comments and all they could say was my case wasn't an unique one
It seems to me that I have been hand picked for some reason that they don't want to disclose. But since I'm left to guess, based on my team, like I said before it appears like I'm being made a scapegoat for the sake of the other two oldies in the group.

The deal is Termination payment (3 months Tax and NI Free) and a taxable contractual notice pay (roughly 3 months) plus 350 for Independent legal fees. Of course with a agreed reference as well, but with the job climate so bad, I can't see neither the money nor the reference go a long way.

Your comments and advise are greatly appreciated..

Feeling lost about the future..

sangie595

I'd be tempted to push back for more termination pay. You have nothing to lose by asking for more. They can only refuse to negotiate. You've lived in countries that haggle - use it. I'd double the offer to six months and see if they counter....

As a matter of interest, how does what they are offering compare to redundancy?

Have you consisted going abroad again. That seems to be the favoured option for a lot of people in your sector.

To be fair, what is happening with anyone else isn't your business and they absolutely should not tell you!

palasmy

Thanks Sangie595.


The package appears to be in line or to be fair slightly above what is recommended in the statutory pay. But like I said, they do seem to be desperate which is kind of really strange. Come this september I will be completing 11 full years with the UK centre alone, wonder if that has got anything to do with this...



The Oil sector in general is only recovering from its worst ever and the process is really slow however places like in the ME yes there may be some scope but I don't want to disrupt my kids education again when they have just settled in and are in an important phase.


However, given my current circumstances I don't know how fruitful these references can be to help me gain a job, as you know there is always a 'word of mouth' informal exchange of information where people will surely get to know that I was made to go because of my incapability. This industry and my skill is very niche, sangie595 and everyone knows everyone else so I'm just a bit sceptical about my future here



Probably as u say I have to venture out but just on my own and visit my family regularly or do a start-up on my own..

lulu650

If you are still wondering whether to go down the PIP route, I can guarantee that no matter how confident you feel at the beginning, it will drag you down and leave your self confidence in tatters. Employees often need to go off sick with stress which makes the process much longer hence the offer of an SA.

I would agree with working toward 6 months tax free pay. Never accept the first offer as a point of principle but 2/3 months is standard and you've been there 11 years. As sangie mentioned, interesting to compare it to a redundancy payment from the company. Once you've got to the final offer, get them to round it up.

The solicitor's fees are just for signing off the paperwork and advising you of your rights, ie you cannot raise a grievance or move toward an ET. If you want a solicitor to negotiate on your behalf, the cost is down to you.

Finally, ask for garden leave during your notice period.

You are entering into discussions surrounding a confidential document. As you haven't formally started the PIP, I can see no reason for your reference to mention that. If your employer informally discussed with others your capability issues then they would be breaching the terms of the SA. It really isn't in their interests to do that.

Hope this helps

palasmy

lulu650 wrote: »

If you are still wondering whether to go down the PIP route, I can guarantee that no matter how confident you feel at the beginning, it will drag you down and leave your self confidence in tatters. Employees often need to go off sick with stress which makes the process much longer hence the offer of an SA.

I would agree with working toward 6 months tax free pay. Never accept the first offer as a point of principle but 2/3 months is standard and you've been there 11 years. As sangie mentioned, interesting to compare it to a redundancy payment from the company. Once you've got to the final offer, get them to round it up.

The solicitor's fees are just for signing off the paperwork and advising you of your rights, ie you cannot raise a grievance or move toward an ET. If you want a solicitor to negotiate on your behalf, the cost is down to you.

Finally, ask for garden leave during your notice period.

You are entering into discussions surrounding a confidential document. As you haven't formally started the PIP, I can see no reason for your reference to mention that. If your employer informally discussed with others your capability issues then they would be breaching the terms of the SA. It really isn't in their interests to do that.

Hope this helps

lulu650, Yes I need to agree with you on the stress and the pressure that I may be enforced upon can be difficult if I go through the PIP route, its just such a shame my career had to end this way..


The package is slightly more than the equivalent redundancy pay, however like I said I don't think it will be enough in the current circumstances so I will try and negotiate to see what more I can extract. Can I list the point like inflation, tight market conditions and the contributions I have made over the years including the biggest sacrifice I made to go to ME which in a way has resulted in the current state, will these help my negotiation


And what happens to the my tax and NI contribution during this period, does the company pay in full or just its share or should I have to do it on my own declaring my job less state. Should I have to notify my change in status to HMRC, Council and request for benefits??

What is a garden leave, I was told if I decide to accept the SA I should stop working on the 3rd Aug but the package says a contractual notice pay which after tax and NI seems to be like roughly 3 months??


Sincere apologies for asking so many questions, I really don't know how these things work and I just want to make sure I get everything clear and square with the company before its too late


Thanks

getmore4less

If you have worked for the company for 17 years with continuity then at 44 you have 18.5 weeks statutory redundancy capped at £508pw

12weeks statutory notice already takes you to Sept.

contractual would override this,

what are their standard redundancy package like the oil used to be better that stat, often multiple weeks full pay.

the SA looks under if you do have 17years, but the secondments may have broken the continuity.


tax free is capped at £30k

palasmy

getmore4less wrote: »

If you have worked for the company for 17 years with continuity then at 44 you have 18.5 weeks statutory redundancy capped at £508pw

12weeks statutory notice already takes you to Sept.

contractual would override this,

what are their standard redundancy package like the oil used to be better that stat, often multiple weeks full pay.

the SA looks under if you do have 17years, but the secondments may have broken the continuity.


tax free is capped at £30k

Yes there was break in 2007 when I was relocated to UK, hence I think the term is only 11 years and not 17



What does 'contractual' mean, is it the notice period by either parties to terminate??

sangie595

palasmy wrote: »

Yes there was break in 2007 when I was relocated to UK, hence I think the term is only 11 years and not 17



What does 'contractual' mean, is it the notice period by either parties to terminate??

What do you mean by a break? Did your work for another employer? If toy worked for this employer, then your work location is irrelevant - it's still continuous employment.

palasmy

sangie595 wrote: »

What do you mean by a break? Did your work for another employer? If toy worked for this employer, then your work location is irrelevant - it's still continuous employment.

Yes there was a break for when I was with someone else during the transition period (but it was only for 3 months). So my previous years before then were not taken into my service despite my request..

palasmy

Ok, just did some maths, the tax free termination payment is 3000 pounds more than my redundancy pay based on 11 years service which works out to be 16.5 weeks capped at 508 per week

The contractual notice pay which is a net amount, works out to be 3.5 months pay. Additionally I should be paid my holidays.

Is this a reasonable package or am I being greedy to ask for more..

They are also proposing that I end my employment on the 3rd of Aug, but would it be ok to request for another month extension??

Thanks