How to get a Party Wall Surveyor to do their job?

108bigjon

Good People..

Anybody please with advice on how to get a neighbours Party Wall surveyor to do their job (and whether ours is taking us for a ride)

Firstly, we are in the wrong. We did not serve a Party Wall notice... Never once mentioned by Planning, Build regs or the Architectural consultant... however, we get it that it was our responsibility...

It was also a surprise that our neighbour would suddenly start saying we have ruined her house...She and my partner were once BFFs... so much so my partner once took out a personal loan of 15k to get her out of trouble... How many neighbours would do that for you? In and out of each others houses, looking after each others animals and fully aware of all the works being undertaken, she was even on the original planning application...

She had a survey done and the gentleman concerned produced a report listing every crack in her 150 year old Victorian terrace house and suggested that we we appoint a Party Wall surveyor to resolve the issue.. We did that in days. We have no problem putting right any damage we have caused but she appeared to be blaming us for everything wrong with her house. We know she has never done any maintenance in ten years, I pointed out the crack in her far-side wall that was letting rainwater run inside her kitchen window years ago and we all suffered from the rat infestation centered under her kitchen floor. They literally ate her kitchen... yet in her world, that is now down to us...

We appoint a local Party Wall surveyor... seemed reasonable at £100 p/h compared to another who wanted £180... plus VAT... plus expenses... He reckoned a couple of surveyors should be able to sort it out in a couple of hours. Re-assured, we sign him up. He has one meeting next door with the neighbours surveyor, asks him to put his name to what damage we have caused. He then sends a bill for £1100... Eleven hours work...

Now that is bad enough, however the real issue is that we are still waiting for this other surveyor to make his report... We are now in the 13th week... My partner is suffering anxiety attacks... Our surveyor says he keeps on at him but is now suggesting we should appoint a third surveyor when we do not even know what the second one is saying .. What is going on with these people? It does seem deliberate.

So, practical advice please. How to get this resolved ie get her surveyor to do their job? All work has been at a standstill for months, Who can we complain to? Being reasonable is not working out to be a good option.

What if we just plaster the wall (left clear to show there is no damage) and fit the kitchen and be done?. Or are we deliberately being pushed into doing something that will cost us further?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Best regards

J and S

teneighty

What work are you doing and what stage is it at?


Have you or your surveyor served a Party Wall Notice?

cddc

You have clearly started work without serving notice or getting written consent from your neighbour so because you are in the wrong there for sure, unfortunately you have left yourself open to the sometimes murky world of the party wall surveying fraternity.This can prove ruinously expensive and stressful.

It is always a good idea to get a survey done of the neighbours property before starting work and at least serve the notice. That way you cannot find yourself accused of causing damage when you have not.

Has your neighbour or their surveyor taken out a court injunction against you to prevent you continuing with your work?

I have had three dealings with the Party Wall Act over the years, one good, one indifferent and one horrendous experience which ended up with a so called professional surveyor taking me to small claims court in an effort to get us to pay his exorbitant and incorrectly charged fees. He lost. But still, I could have certainly done without the stress. In my experience there are good, average and some incompetent sharks out there.

It may be that either yours or their surveyor may possibly be one of the latter. You need absolutely no qualifications to set up as a party wall surveyor. Anyone can call themselves one.
That is not to say there are not some excellent ones out there....

It may well be worth you talking to your local RICS member about what you can do in your situation. They offer one free consultation . In our dispute the advice they gave was invaluable. Have a look on the RICS website .

Even though you have left yourself open here you have my sympathy and I wish you the best of luck in getting this resolved.

108bigjon

Thank you! Bit of a shock to find out that anyone can call themselves a Party Wall surveyor... Will certainly look up the RICS website... There are two in town. (I thought ours was a member, he is not)

There is no injunction at the moment, just the threat of one if I do any more work... I am considering just sacking our surveyor and completing the job but unsure of the consequences...
Can I be forced to undo the work?

Thank you once again for taking the time and trouble to write. Much appreciated.

Doozergirl

You haven't told us what you're doing or what stage you are at.

teneighty

108bigjon wrote: »

Thank you! Bit of a shock to find out that anyone can call themselves a Party Wall surveyor... Will certainly look up the RICS website... There are two in town. (I thought ours was a member, he is not)

There is no injunction at the moment, just the threat of one if I do any more work... I am considering just sacking our surveyor and completing the job but unsure of the consequences...
Can I be forced to undo the work?

Thank you once again for taking the time and trouble to write. Much appreciated.

No, you cannot be forced to undo the work. Unless you have demolished the party wall or encroached on to the neighbour's property.

108bigjon

Hi
All that is left to do is some plasterboard to be put up, plastering, tiling, 2nd fix electric and fit the kitchen.

Two-up two-down Victorian terrace type with narrow kitchen. Unusually we have a driveway up the side of the house. We have basically squared our kitchen. Unfortunately for us, while the wall foundations are over three meters away from the party wall, I had to dig a square foundation 750mmx 750mm to support a column which is within the three meter area.

When I took down our kitchen ceiling we could see into our neighbours bathroom so (after showing it to her,) I put in three courses of bricks as a fire-break. In the bathroom above the kitchen, I also put in a fire break between our houses as they were open in the loft space

It by both surveyors request we do no further work because, I expect, they both think a third surveyor will need to be appointed and they will want to see the (undamaged) party wall for themselves... until then, we are being forced to wait.

My feeling is that three months for a surveyor to produce a report on a house he has already surveyed two weeks previously is beyond reasonable....

We do want to do the right thing,but we feel we are being taken advantage of ... and not just by our neighbour.

Doozergirl

Nothing you have left to do falls under the PWA. They couldn't get an injunction if they tried; as the applicable work has been carried out already. There's no party wall agreement that can be entered into now and the agreements only last for as long as the applicable work is ongoing. They can't stop internal renovatiins that don't fall unde the act.

Has anybody mentioned a third surveyor or is that just you? I can't possibly see why one is needed.

I think that the normal PWA route (ie. one where you serve notcie before starting work!) always give timeframes for each surveyor to reply to the other. Otherwise the neighbours could be spitefully slow...

You really need a proper conversation with your PWA about the actual consequences. I don't have experience of what happens when things aren't done correctly, but as far as I'm aware, your neighbour would actually have to take you to court at this point because all work under the Act is completed.

In your position, I'd be making a bit of noise with my own surveyor, taking a million photos of everything as it is currently, send it to the PWA and just getting on with finishing my kitchen - taking photos for the sake of it as I go.

There's going to be a limit as to what damage and of what kind can be done to her house if nothing was actually touching the party wall.

Is the neighbour talking to you at all? Could you salvage the relationship? Do you think there could be some genuine damage on that side?

108bigjon

Hi

The third surveyor option was mentioned by our surveyor early on as the normal solution if two party wall surveyors could not agree... seemed reasonable. However when he mentioned appointing one even before we have heard from our neighbours surveyor I began to have serious doubts...

When we questioned him (and told him we had no money) he changed his tune, saying he was the arbiter... Another thing, when my partner enquired about the supposed 11 hrs work, he told her to knock off three hours work from the bill. Thing is, I am a carpenter... if I do 11 hrs work, i want 11 hours money... I don't give away 3 hours of graft... unless I did not do them...

With regards to discussing things with our PWA, he has blown my trust. It turns out he was telling my partner that she would be a criminal and could get arrested by the police... My understanding is this is not correct unless defying a court injunction...

We have paid him £500.00 already and he would like the other £300 though he kindly offered to let us pay him £100 a week... This is just the interim invoice... (after his meeting with the neighbours PWA, i offered to pay an interim bill, to show good faith... thinking that as all he has done is to ask the other PWA to produce a report... maybe £200 or £300... ? But no, £1100. I am not a happy bunny.

I did cause damage to her bathroom ceiling last summer... still have all her messages thanking me for putting it right ( I am still mortified).. but ruining her kitchen, making it wonky, causing cracks on the other-side of her house... impossible. I blame her surveyor, instead of telling her exactly why our work could not have damaged her house, he appears to have seen a potential cash cow.

My partner is extremely kind hearted but even she will have nothing to do with this woman again.

Thank you again Doozergirl for giving us hope. Will follow CDDC's advice as well and contact our local RICS PWS.

Will write again after that. Any other questions will be welcomed though...