Liability for second hand whitegoods and appliances

lildoonbuggy

Hi all. We have been living in our rental for going on two years and our lease is due to be renewed in 3 weeks. Upon asking to re-sign, the landlords (via agent) have asked to increase the rent by £50 a month and advised we will need to take on full liability for the whitegoods. This is quite frustrating coming so late in the piece, but also because we are already paying £150pm above market rent in the area. We have been reasonably happy there but have had issues with the landlords taking their time to address maintenance issues - predominantly with their whitegoods and have gone months without a dishwasher and also had issues with the fridge leaking. They are now refusing to budge and saying not only do we have to maintain the whitegoods, any issues with them would be taken from our deposit of 3 months rent if not addressed prior to leaving the property. Just wondering if you think this kind of thing would stand up at tribunal, particularly given the appliances were already second hand when we arrived, are a very cheap brand and prone to problems. We're getting nervous now with just 3 weeks on our lease and they are no longer returning our calls to negotiate our preferred terms. Any thoughts on what the worst case could be with this situation? We have a cat and dog which complicates the ease at which we could find another place, but financially we're in a good position and have fairly good savings for a future house deposit.

G_M

You don't have to 'renew'. Could go periodic. See


* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?


If you do that, the terms (including the white goods) remain exactly as before (unless you expressly agree to change them).


If you agree to take on liability for the white goods, either as part of a new signed tenancy agreement, or separately, then yes, it would stand up in court.

Why not simply prevaricate for 3 weeks. The day after your current fixed term ends, if you stay, your tenancy becomes periodic. The ball is then in the LL's court as to what he does.

lildoonbuggy

G_M, thank you so much! That is extremely helpful and reassuring. Will look to do a bit more research on how it might impact us with regards to negative references should we reach a stalemate, but this gives a huge degree of peace of mind in the meantime.

stator

Renewing contracts is a massive con and money making machine for rental agencies.
Unless you really have a genuine need for a fixed term contract, just move onto a periodic tenancy.
In your position I would not accept liability for white goods. My position would be, either the white goods belong to the landlord and he/she fixes them when they break or they belong to the tenant and the tenant will take them with them when they leave. If the landlord says, keep the white goods until they break, then when you buy new ones they are yours and you take them with you when you leave, that would be an acceptable compromise. The idea of paying for white goods and then leaving them when you move out, that is laughable.

Icarus01

stator wrote: »

Renewing contracts is a massive con and money making machine for rental agencies.
Unless you really have a genuine need for a fixed term contract, just move onto a periodic tenancy.
In your position I would not accept liability for white goods. My position would be, either the white goods belong to the landlord and he/she fixes them when they break or they belong to the tenant and the tenant will take them with them when they leave. If the landlord says, keep the white goods until they break, then when you buy new ones they are yours and you take them with you when you leave, that would be an acceptable compromise. The idea of paying for white goods and then leaving them when you move out, that is laughable.

This. My initial tenancy agreement stated any white goods left in the property prior to rental are used at the risk of the tenant and the landlord won't be liable for them. A couple of lines down it then stated any white goods noted on the inventory damaged or broken at the end of tenancy will be taken out of the deposit to repair or replace. I refused to sign anything until they fixed that. It now says something along the lines of 'by signing this agreement you accept ownership of any white goods left in the property during start of tenancy'.



First day there I took the crappy little fridge straight down the recycling center. The LL was fuming, as even though they didn't buy it, they wanted to keep it for the next tenant but didn't want to take it out of the property to store. Not my problem.

Cakeguts

I am a landlord and we have periodic tenancies that are longer than 10 years so if you want to go periodic do that. It means that you don't have a fixed term but do you want that with these landlords?

sal_III

Either way, I would look at moving out. Why pay over market rate for crap treatment, like slow repairs and 3 months without a dishwasher?

parkrunner

If you're paying £150 per month over the market rate and unhappy with maintenance problems why on earth do you want to stay there?

lildoonbuggy

Thanks all, after a mad day at work these responses are so very welcome! I thought much along the same lines and certainly wouldn't want to be spending money on machines that if it were up to me, I would replace at a heart beat. The contractual wording is super helpful and if they come back, I will certainly push for a transfer of ownership or ask them to remove the whitegoods.

I don't have particular attachment to the property, however because we have pets (such a struggle finding rentals) and are saving for our own place it would just be so much easier to hold out for another 6 months or so. Adding to that, we actually want to move to a different part of London but in the new year, once work and holidays are behind us.

In terms of going forward, I will have a look at periodic tenancies (not heard of it before). For the time being we will stop chasing the agents for the contract and I'll keep looking at what rentals come up both nearby and in our desired location, in case that brings something. For context, we've never rented privately before, always owned so it's a whole new world for us!

sal_III

If the LL is cheeky b***er like that and you stand up to him, it's possible he might look to kick you out of the property. Now if you read up on the matter here you will know that it's not that easy for him do so, but that might not stop him from trying and cause you troubles.

So have a backup plan ready just in case.

G_M

stator wrote: »

...... The idea of paying for white goods and then leaving them when you move out, that is laughable.

Just playing devil's advocate, the potential justification here is that the tenant is getting the benefit of the appliance during the tenancy, and by using the appliance is imposing wear & tear which might lead to a breakdown. So the contractual repairing obligation is based on the tenant maintaining the appliance in a working condition while using it.

Not saying I'd do this, or passing judgement, just explaining the context on which the law is based.