Pension upon divorce.

xylophone

https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/member-hub/divorce-or-dissolution-civil-partnership-and-your-pension

He can download the official Guidance booklet above.

crv1963

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

:rotfl::rotfl::D The husband is not me! I am female and have been happily married for forty-seven years in October. The advice is for a younger friend

They are in a Final Salary Scheme . It's NHS.

We have told him to seek a lawyer's advice, so hopefully he will.

If they have been married for 8 years, no assets other than pensions, and these are of a similar value, with similar earnings, no children then a clean break is likely. Given that he has less time to accrue his pension and he has no other pension or huge savings it is unlikely he will lose any of it.


If your friend is having lots of demands/ conditions placed on him then he can divorce his wife, he doesn't have to wait until she is satisfied enough with her demands being met for her to then start proceeding against him.


If he starts the proceedings he will be in the driving seat as far as timescales go. He needs a free half hour with a Solicitor to go through it with him.

seven-day-weekend

crv1963 wrote: »

If they have been married for 8 years, no assets other than pensions, and these are of a similar value, with similar earnings, no children then a clean break is likely. Given that he has less time to accrue his pension and he has no other pension or huge savings it is unlikely he will lose any of it.


If your friend is having lots of demands/ conditions placed on him then he can divorce his wife, he doesn't have to wait until she is satisfied enough with her demands being met for her to then start proceeding against him.

If he starts the proceedings he will be in the driving seat as far as timescales go. He needs a free half hour with a Solicitor to go through it with him.

Thanks. We have told him to see a solicitor.

She wants to divorce him for unreasonable behaviour. He wants to divorce her for adultery. She says if he tries to divorce her for adultery she will 'take him for everything he has got', which basically is only the pension. Therefore, I was seeking guidance for him.

Thanks all, I will pass the advice on.

bouicca21

Tell him to Steer clear of accusations of adultery - the courts want way more proof than in the old days. The bar will almost certainly be too high. Though tbh the grounds for divorce are unlikely to affect the financial outcome. On what you have said, it sounds like easy clean break territory - unless one or the other has a huge savings pot.

Remind him that he can also do unreasonable behaviour. It needs several reasons, one of which can be an inappropriate relationship with another man. Hard as it is, it is best to try and keep emotions out of it

Get him over to Wikivorce, where a search of the forums will give him plenty of ideas of the sort of things that can be alleged as unreasonable behaviour. Plus emotional support and financial advice.

crv1963

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Thanks. We have told him to see a solicitor.

She wants to divorce him for unreasonable behaviour. He wants to divorce her for adultery. She says if he tries to divorce her for adultery she will 'take him for everything he has got', which basically is only the pension. Therefore, I was seeking guidance for him.

Thanks all, I will pass the advice on.

Tell him no matter how raw he feels emotionally do not try to divorce her on the grounds of adultery! Although it is possible to do so, if he names the person he also has to serve papers on them and they need to go to court as well. If he uses "adultery with person unknown" also a possibility then his wife has to agree that she has committed adultery. If she says she didn't then he is back to square one and may have to wait 5 years to divorce on separation grounds.


Far better to use unreasonable behaviour no matter how raw e feels now. The Court aren't interested in who's guilty or done what, only that the marriage is over. Tell him to start the proceedings, get the Degree Nisi, go for a clean break and get the Degree Absolute, then take the time to recover emotionally!

seven-day-weekend

Thanks all, some excellent advice which I will pass on to my friend.

DairyQueen

Age is also a factor that the court will take into consideration. However, if she is late 20s and he early 40s that's rather different from she late 20s and he late 40s.

Your friend likely has other pensions, unlike his younger wife, and as has been mentioned, and all other factors being equal, his NHS CETV will probably be higher than hers.

If pensions are the couple's only assets then a negotiated settlement may be a tad tricky without splitting pensions. I think the CETVs will be central. If there is a relatively small difference then their ages may be a factor that the court considers insufficient to pension split. If, on the other hand, the difference is reasonable then deviation from a 50/50 division of marital assets may be considered unfair and she may indeed receive a percentage in the absence of any offsetting asset (house equity, cash savings, etc.).

I think both parties would benefit from legal advice and perhaps your friend could also encourage his spouse to see a lawyer. Such advice can provide a reality check and avoid costs pursuing unlikely outcomes.

Unfortunately, intransigence is a costly business. Legal fees can easily reach £10k-£20k+ for each of the parties and costs are rarely awarded against either party. Acting unreasonably, unless extreme, is rarely punished by the courts so it's much cheaper to reach a settlement via, say, mediation.

It may help your friend to view this from a slightly different perspective. If they had both contributed equally to employer DC schemes throughout their marriage, or to S&S ISAs, and one party's fund had performed better than the other, would it be reasonable for the lucky party to receive 100% of the higher performing fund? Or would it be reasonable to sum the fund values and split 50/50?

Pensions are just another joint asset regardless of whose name is on the label.

seven-day-weekend

He is early-40s, she is mid-20s. He only has this pension, no others. He has been self employed before this employment and didn't pay into a pension.

I don't think he can 'encourage' his wife to do anything. She and her new boyfriend are threatening and bullying him and generally being vile. The boyfriend is late 30s, I think.

I personally don't think she should get anything, after the way she has treated him. But I know the law has to be obeyed in these circumstances.

crv1963

When looking at the CETV to get a 50:50 split, if they are of similar value the court will also take into account the costs of transferring the pension over to either party- not much point awarding one party 3k from a pot if it then costs them 5k to action it!


If they are in the same NHS job on similar pay- all be it with him one increment ahead, they will be in the 2015, Career Average Pension so I can't see it being worth pursuing, my ex had to pay 5k I am led to believe to get the NHS Pension Agency to transfer from my NHS Pension to hers what she was awarded, but my NHS CETV was hugely different to hers.

DairyQueen

Unfortunately, behaviour, unless extreme (e.g. physical abuse), isn't a factor. Courts don't apply moral penalties. They will simply look at the parties' circumstances and needs. However, if either party tries to thwart legal proceedings (e.g. refuses to submit details of finances) then they can expect penalties.

Without wishing to sound critical (I'm not, you sound caring and supportive) it's usually unhelpful to seek advice from well-intentioned friends/family as, of course, such advice is rarely unbiased, objective or accurate. He needs to see a lawyer pronto as legal advice will provide the reassurance he needs regarding the best/worst case scenario. His wife's threats amount to diddly squat.

It's very sad that people become so hooked on the grounds for divorce. In reality, it makes zero difference to any outcome. I know plenty of couples who have erroneously admitted adultery simply to facilitate a quick divorce. The law is badly in need of updating.

I agree with the advice that the advantage lies with the petitioner as s/he controls timescales. Also, that unreasonable behaviour can be evidenced in many ways. Fighting a divorce petition would be very costly and it sounds like the spouse is as keen to end the marriage as your friend. I doubt she would be willing to fund the legal fees required to fight the petition regardless of what she currently says.

There is nothing complicated about this couple's finances. It looks like one of those cases where a judge may say: "why are we here?". This simplicity is an advantage as there is little ground for costly exchanges between lawyers.

My advice, for what it's worth, is that your friend would be best-served distancing himself from his spouse physically and keeping contact to zero beyond essential. He can't control her behaviour, only his response. It sounds like they are not able to agree a settlement as they are using finances as an emotional battleground. Sadly, an all too common occurrence.

Your friend shouldn't allow himself to be sucked into the 'lawyer exchange of letters' vortex. He just needs to follow the legal procedure for divorce and once both Forms E are submitted (i.e. detailed breakdown of finances/assets including pension CETV) take a view - with lawyer advice - of whether any settlement should be offered in lieu of different pension values and, if so, in what form. For example, it may be more advantageous for your friend to settle with (borrowed?) cash rather than a pension split.

No point in seeking to use the courts to avenge her behaviour and punish her. It will simply end-up costing him financially and emotionally. The same is, of course, true for his wife.