Landlord harassing us after deposit returned

XYZ5

Hi all, I'd really appreciate some advice about our current situation regarding how worried we should be or what we can do about it... bear with me, as rather long!

Our tenancy ended on June 4th and our deposit was protected by the TDS Insured Scheme. After a few weeks of back and forth over email (during which our former landlord took a lot longer than timeframe given to respond), our deposit was returned in full via the agent on 26th June. We presume that the landlord gave his permission to them to do so, since he did not email us directly to this effect but it is our understanding that the agent could not have returned the deposit without his say-so. We did not have to go to TDS to raise a dispute, although we were on the verge of doing at several points when he was non-responsive.

Then last week (5th July) our former landlord began emailing us again making requests for payment. He said we need to pay him for professional cleaning, which is not something he has brought up at any time before during the negotiations (they were all about potentially missing items and all resolved via email exchange). He said that we were in breach of contract and that we were legally required to pay for professional cleaning. We referred to our contract and it does not stipulate any such thing. Also, if he wanted to make any claims for cleaning, this should surely have been done via the TDS before we got out deposit back as a proposed deduction? We would then have disputed it via the proper channels and etc.

We went back to him saying he was wrong and then he referred to a clause in the contract that actually has nothing to do with cleaning. It states:

"Both parties agree that the cost of a professional inventory and check in (if any) is to be met by the Landlord. The cost (£120.00 plus VAT) of a professional check out (if any) is to be met by the Tenant/s."

We paid this inventory and checkout cost when we moved in (and have receipts and emails to prove this). We went back to him with these; he ignored this email entirely. We hoped that that was the end of it.

He has just emailed back today demanding the money and completely ignoring our email explaining we do not owe it. He is threatening us with adjudication for this sum that he does not seem to understand is not owed to him and has already been paid. I'm not sure what kind of adjudication he is referring to, but he is suggesting that we will also incur any costs involved. I understand the TDS adjudication service is free to use, so I'm not sure if he is referring to small claims or something else.

So my questions really are: Can he still open a dispute with the TDS after returning our deposit? Can we do anything to stop him harassing us? How likely is he to be able to take this to court, given that he has chosen to try to get money out of us outside of the TDS scheme, which he has signed up to?

This is causing us a lot of stress and short of blocking his email address I don't know what to do. The agent wants nothing to do with it (he tried to suggest they were telling him to chase us for the money, but they knew nothing about it). I have emailed the TDS for advice but their phone number doesn't seem to take me to a human. I am going to try the CAB later.

Basically I'm just wondering how worried we should be or whether he doesn't have a leg to stand on, having returned our deposit ages ago and disputing a charge which does not even exist. He is extremely difficult to reason with as he tends to just ignore the content of our emails and disappear for days at a time. Which I wouldn't mind if he didn't keep popping up!

Out,_Vile_Jelly

Ignore the emails, keep copies of all paperwork relating to the tenancy, and carry on with your lives.

Pixie5740

XYZ5 wrote: »

Hi all, I'd really appreciate some advice about our current situation regarding how worried we should be or what we can do about it... bear with me, as rather long!

Our tenancy ended on June 4th and our deposit was protected by the TDS Insured Scheme. After a few weeks of back and forth over email (during which our landlord took a lot longer than timeframe given to respond), our deposit was returned in full via the agent on 26th June. We did not have to go to TDS to raise a dispute, although we were on the verge of doing at several points when he was non-responsive. We presume that the landlord gave his permission to them to do so, since he did not email us directly to this effect but it is our understanding that the agent could not have returned the deposit without his say-so.

Then last week (5th July) our former landlord began emailing us again making requests for payment. He said we need to pay him for professional cleaning, which is not something he has brought up at any time before during the negotiations (they were all about potentially missing items and all resolved via email exchange). He said that we were in breach of contract and that we were legally required to pay for professional cleaning. We referred to our contract and it does not stipulate any such thing. Also, if he wanted to make any claims for cleaning, this should surely have been done via the TDS before we got out deposit back as a proposed deduction? We would then have disputed it via the proper channels and etc.

We went back to him saying he was wrong and then he referred to a clause in the contract that actually has nothing to do with cleaning. It states:

"Both parties agree that the cost of a professional inventory and check in (if any) is to be met by the Landlord. The cost (£120.00 plus VAT) of a professional check out (if any) is to be met by the Tenant/s."

We paid this inventory and checkout cost when we moved in (and have receipts and emails to prove this). We went back to them with these; he ignored this email entirely. We hoped that that was the end of it.

He has just emailed back today demanding the money and completely ignoring our email explaining we do not owe it. He is threatening us with adjudication for this sum that he does not seem to understand is not owed to him and has already been paid. I'm not sure what kind of adjudication he is referring to, but he is suggesting that we will also incur any costs involved. I understand the TDS adjudication service is free to use, so I'm not s

So my questions really are: Can he still open a dispute with the TDS after returning our deposit? Can we do anything to stop him harassing us? How likely is he to be able to take this to court, given that he has chosen to try to get money out of us outside of the TDS scheme, which he has signed up to?

This is causing us a lot of stress and short of blocking his email address I don't know what to do. The agent wants nothing to do with it (he tried to suggest they were telling him to chase us for the money, but they knew nothing about it). I have emailed the TDS for advice but their phone number doesn't seem to take me to a human. I am going to try the CAB later.

Basically I'm just wondering how worried we should be or whether he doesn't have a leg to stand on, having returned our deposit ages ago and disputing a charge which does not even exist. He is extremely difficult to reason with as he tends to just ignore the content of our emails and disappear for days at a time. Which I wouldn't mind if he didn't keep popping up!

If TDS have returned your deposit to you then their ADR service is no longer available to use. Your former landlord could still take you to small claims court but that doesn't mean his claim would be successful.

You have your deposit back so why bother to communicate with your former landlord? Just ignore him because A) you have your money back and b) it's not really harassment if you keep entering into dialogue with him.

For further information please read G_M's Guide to Deposits: payment, protection and return.

XYZ5

Concise, I like it! Thank you.

XYZ5

I suppose I'm just worried that if we don't respond then he can somehow use that against us. But we have tried to reason with him, so I don't know what else we can do.

What kind of costs could we incur if he goes to small claims? It wouldn't be vast amounts would it?

Pixie5740

You would only incur costs if your landlord wins his case.

https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/court-fees

XYZ5

So if I'm reading that right, and he wins, we'd basically only have to pay around £25-30 on top of the amount claimed?

davidmcn

You haven't told us how much money he's actually asking for. But unless it's a big amount it's not likely to be worth his while starting a court action about it.

XYZ5

It's the amount in the clause posted above (£120+VAT), even though we've already paid that. Initially, when he said it was about cleaning, he said he would obtain quotes but he never did and has now become fixated on the £120+VAT amount.

kazwookie

Ignore him.

saajan_12

XYZ5 wrote: »

Hi all, I'd really appreciate some advice about our current situation regarding how worried we should be or what we can do about it... bear with me, as rather long!

Our tenancy ended on June 4th and our deposit was protected by the TDS Insured Scheme. - good After a few weeks of back and forth over email (during which our former landlord took a lot longer than timeframe given to respond), - what timeframe? Generally deposit schemes suggest 3 months which still hasn't passed. Unlikely you'd be able to prove a loss as a result so I'd forget this. our deposit was returned in full via the agent on 26th June. - good We presume that the landlord gave his permission to them to do so, since he did not email us directly to this effect but it is our understanding that the agent could not have returned the deposit without his say-so. -
do you have anything in writing that this was in full & final settlement of the tenancy or that the LL agrees there were no damages?
We did not have to go to TDS to raise a dispute, although we were on the verge of doing at several points when he was non-responsive.

Then last week (5th July) our former landlord began emailing us again making requests for payment. He said we need to pay him for professional cleaning, which is not something he has brought up at any time before during the negotiations (they were all about potentially missing items and all resolved via email exchange). He said that we were in breach of contract and that we were legally required to pay for professional cleaning. We referred to our contract and it does not stipulate any such thing. - Even if it was in the contract, if you leave the property cleaned to a high standard (regardless of whether you do / your friend / employed cleaner does it) then the LL suffers no loss so they can't claim 'professional cleaning' off you. So the key is do the checkout pictures show it is as clean as the check in or better? Also, if he wanted to make any claims for cleaning, this should surely have been done via the TDS before we got out deposit back as a proposed deduction? We would then have disputed it via the proper channels and etc. - ideally, yes but technically the LL can claim for damages / breach of tenancy if you left the property unclean through small claims court. If you have a statement from them stating the property was clean / no damages and that's why they're returning the deposit, that would be great proof against them but doesn't stop them from filing a claim (which they might lose).

We went back to him saying he was wrong and then he referred to a clause in the contract that actually has nothing to do with cleaning. It states:

"Both parties agree that the cost of a professional inventory and check in (if any) is to be met by the Landlord. The cost (£120.00 plus VAT) of a professional check out (if any) is to be met by the Tenant/s."

We paid this inventory and checkout cost when we moved in (and have receipts and emails to prove this). We went back to him with these; he ignored this email entirely. We hoped that that was the end of it. - this is separate fees which you contractually agreed to pay. Keep the receipts and present them if the LL does raise a court claim.

He has just emailed back today demanding the money and completely ignoring our email explaining we do not owe it. He is threatening us with adjudication for this sum that he does not seem to understand is not owed to him and has already been paid. I'm not sure what kind of adjudication he is referring to, but he is suggesting that we will also incur any costs involved. I understand the TDS adjudication service is free to use, so I'm not sure if he is referring to small claims or something else. You're correct, TDS ADR would be free for you, but also irrelevant since the deposit is returned. LL can only file a court claim now, which would incur filing fees, etc. If the court finds against you, they might also make you liable to reimburse LL's court fees, but if you're confident he's wrong then don't worry about this.

So my questions really are: Can he still open a dispute with the TDS after returning our deposit? - No
Can we do anything to stop him harassing us? -
1. Write to him to instruct him to stop harrassing you, stating you believe all matters to be closed and if he has a legitimate claim he can correspond by post / court claim.
2. Block his email/number and don't read his messages.
3. Contact police if it gets really bad (this won't affect the civil claim and don't waste the police's time unncessarily if that's your aim)
How likely is he to be able to take this to court, given that he has chosen to try to get money out of us outside of the TDS scheme, which he has signed up to? - He has 100% right to file a court claim. They may be more likely to dismiss because his claims are unfounded / he's not tried to resolve through TDS / returning deposit suggests admission of no damage but none of these are guaranteed.


This is causing us a lot of stress and short of blocking his email address I don't know what to do. - write one clear message instructing him to correspond only by letter, then block. The agent wants nothing to do with it (he tried to suggest they were telling him to chase us for the money, but they knew nothing about it). - ignore the agent. I have emailed the TDS for advice but their phone number doesn't seem to take me to a human. - nothing to do with the TDS now. I am going to try the CAB later. - I'd ask them for help with the harrassment side. As fair as LL's monetary claims go, his only recourse is to file a court claim, so until that happens I wouldn't worry.

Basically I'm just wondering how worried we should be or whether he doesn't have a leg to stand on, having returned our deposit ages ago and disputing a charge which does not even exist. He is extremely difficult to reason with as he tends to just ignore the content of our emails and disappear for days at a time. Which I wouldn't mind if he didn't keep popping up!

The LL's only recourse is to file a court claim. Courts like it when people try to resolve things themselves, so not using the TDS may count against LL (though he may be able to argue the agent acted against his wishes). You shouldn't fall foul of this yourself so if the LL sends you a Letter Before Action, make sure you respond to that in a clear letter stating why you believe you don't owe anything. Other than that, for your sanity don't correspond with him unless/until it reaches court.

Keep your evidence (pictures of when you left / checkout report, receipt of inventory etc fees you paid). Then if the LL does file a court claim, you can easily defend this.