Student charged for cleaning that is not happening

kelloggs36

My DD is about to move out od hwr student house but the other girls are staying on. My DD is about to study in the USA fie the next year so her room is being rented to another student. Because the others are staying, there is to be no imspection at the end of my DD's tenancy nor will there be any cleaning ny an outside agency. She is to gice her key to another housemate to pass to the new student but will bw hwld responsible foe th keys ifbfor some reason they go missing and she is to have £75 witheld for end of tenancy cleaning whicj will halpen at the end of NEXT year when she could be held liable for mess that is not her responsibility. I feel this is unfair. How can we challenge this?

silvercar

Are the other tenants signing a new tenancy?

If not and this is just a substitution of your daughter by a new tenant you will have to wait until the tenancy ends before putting a claim with the tenant deposit scheme.

kelloggs36

Surely the new tenant will be signing thwor own agreement. The others arw renewing the contract.

Asl77c

We had the same thing, this was a long time ago before protection schemes but we just topped the deposits up as new people moved in and rents increased. At the end of the tenancy I got the monies back and distributed them to all of us as the previous tenants. We all got our full deposits back but some did have to wait until the entire tenancy was when thetenancy ended, over a year later

G_M

1) Please describe your daughter's contract:
a) 'a single 'joint & several' tenancy signed by all girls, or does each girl have an individual contract?
b) was/is the contract for a fixed term? If yes, exact start and end dates?
c) or was it a periodic (monthly, or 'rolling') contract from the start? If so, was rent paid weekly? Monthly? Quarterly?
d) or was it a fixed term which has already ended and the become periodic? If so, on what exact date did the fixed term end?

2) If the contract was periodic, did your daughter serve notice? Served on what date? Notice to expire on what date?

3)
e) Has a new contract been signed by the remaining tenants? In what names and starting on what date?
f) or is a 'Deed of Assignment' being put in place to substitute the new student's name for your daughter's?

4) deposit
g) did you daughter pay a deposit?
h) in her own name or jointly with her housemates?
i) was/is it registered?
j) is it being returned?
k) has she requested the deposit scheme return it?

5) the landlord know of the change of tenant, or is it just the agent dealing with this?

6)
l) who found the replacement tenant? Daughter? Agent? Other girls?
m) is the incoming girl paying a deposit? To the agent? To your daughter?

Please answer all questions, fully, and you can then be advised sensibly.

saajan_12

kelloggs36 wrote: »

My DD is about to move out od hwr student house but the other girls are staying on. - are they on individual contracts or all on one joint & several? My DD is about to study in the USA fie the next year so her room is being rented to another student. - How is this changeover legally handled?
a)Is the new student stepping into daughter's shoes through a deed of assignment?
b) or is the room being sublet to the new student as a subtenant or lodger?
c) or is a new tenancy being created with the new group?
Because the others are staying, there is to be no imspection at the end of my DD's tenancy nor will there be any cleaning ny an outside agency. - If the tenancy is ending and cleaning is needed or agreed as a fixed charge in the agreement, then this is a valid charge regardless of what is performed at the end. If a deed of assignment was negotiated, this may be subject to certain fees, e.g. cleaning. But please explain the current tenancy setup and what is changing so we can properly advise. She is to gice her key to another housemate to pass to the new student but will bw hwld responsible foe th keys ifbfor some reason they go missing - again, depends on the legal framework for the changeover. and she is to have £75 witheld for end of tenancy cleaning whicj will halpen at the end of NEXT year when she could be held liable for mess that is not her responsibility. - if the agreement allows for a fixed cleaning charge then does it matter how much mess they clean for £75? Its I feel this is unfair. How can we challenge this?

Please confirm what the current setup is (individual / joint and several) and what is changing e.g.
a) deed of assignment
b) sublet / lodger of the current tenants, with DD still on the agreement
c) new tenancy created - by mutual agreement or by someone serving notice?

If its a fixed cleaning charge, or if it is a fee that has been negotiated as part of agreeing to the changeover, there's likely little you can do.

kelloggs36

G_M wrote: »

1) Please describe your daughter's contract:
a) 'a single 'joint & several' tenancy signed by all girls, or does each girl have an individual contract? it seems to be a joint one
b) was/is the contract for a fixed term? If yes, exact start and end dates? fixed from 26 Aug 2017 to25 Aug 2018
c) or was it a periodic (monthly, or 'rolling') contract from the start? If so, was rent paid weekly? Monthly? Quarterly?
d) or was it a fixed term which has already ended and the become periodic? If so, on what exact date did the fixed term end?

2) If the contract was periodic, did your daughter serve notice? Served on what date? Notice to expire on what date?

3)
e) Has a new contract been signed by the remaining tenants? In what names and starting on what date? new agreement signed by others parties starting on 25 August 2018
f) or is a 'Deed of Assignment' being put in place to substitute the new student's name for your daughter's? I have no idea

4) deposit
g) did you daughter pay a deposit? yes she did - just over £425 - 1/4 of the original deposit as it was divided up between the parties
h) in her own name or jointly with her housemates? well I am guessing it was as part of a whole as her agreement states the whole amount
i) was/is it registered? yes
j) is it being returned? mostly, but witholding £75 for a deep clean that is to happen at the end of the new tenancy agreement
k) has she requested the deposit scheme return it? not yet - we are assuming it will happen automatically?

5) the landlord know of the change of tenant, or is it just the agent dealing with this? The letting agent has done the paperwork but I would assume that the landlord is in agreement as they have their own agreement, possibly a joint one with the other tenants who are remaining in the property

6)
l) who found the replacement tenant? Daughter? Agent? Other girls?the girls I assume
m) is the incoming girl paying a deposit? To the agent? To your daughter? all done via the lettings agent

Please answer all questions, fully, and you can then be advised sensibly.

Nowhere in the agreement does it state that £75 will be charged for cleaning: it actually states that a charge for cleaning will only be made IF the place is not clean when it is vacated. The others are remaining, and so no inspection or cleaning is to be undertaken when my DD vacates. My argument is that it either should be inspected so that it can be proven that any subsequent damage cannot be and should not be charged against her money as she has absolutely nothing to do with it! If they have chosen not to clean the property this year, then she should not be charged for it. Next year, the tenants may well choose to clean the property themselves as per the agreement and therefore no charge will be made anyway. it seems unfair to make her wait a whole year.

G_M

Apologies for the delay.

1) clearly the current tenancy ends on 25th August (and new one starts)
2) when the tenancy ends, the deposit must be returned. A brand new deposit should be taken from the incoming tenants and registered separately.
3) deductions from the deposit can be made if the condition of the property justifies that.
4) if the landlord/agent does not inspect, it would be hard to justify a deduction!
5) if the tenants (including DD) disagree with a proposed deduction they can apply to the scheme for arbitration
6) part of the deposit (eg the £74) can NOT be witheld for a year. The tenancy has ended and the deposit must be either returned in full, or deductions made and justified (see 3 above)
7) if no mention is made of a £75 charge, then no £75 charge can be made unless otherwise justified ( see 3 above)
8) Even if a £75 charge for cleaning was included in the agreement, this would be an unfair term - if the outgoing tenants clean the property to the correct standard at the end of the tenancy, then no further cleaning charge is justifiable
9) the keys should be returned to the landlord/agent at the end of the tenancy (25/8/18). Passing the keys to the new tenants under the unconnected new tenancy is the LL/agent's responsibility, NOT the outgoing tenant's. In this case, I'd request a receipt confirming the keys have been returned as he agent seems to have some strange ideas about what happens when a tenancy ends.......


It might be worth finding out whether a 'lead tenant' is named on the deposit registration. This is who should receive the full deposit when this tenancy ends, and (s)he will then be responsible for sharing it out.

However, reading between the lines, I wonder if the agent intends to release the current deposit at all. My suspicion is that he will take cash (£425) from the new housemate and give it (less the £75) to DD, leaving the full £1,700 deposit untouched in the deposit registration scheme.

This would make applying for arbitration hard, as the Scheme would believe the existing tenancy was continuing, whereas in reality it ends and a new one begins.

A formal application to the scheme, by the tenants, needs to be made for the release of the full (£1700) deposit as soon as the tenancy ends.

It is for the agent to register the £1700 again, for the new tenancy, under a different tenancy referece.

saajan_12

kelloggs36 wrote: »

new agreement signed by others parties starting on 25 August 2018

This is key - much of my earlier advice assumed DD was being 'replaced' in the same tenancy, but if a new one is starting with a (slightly) different set of tenants, then the current deposit should be dealt with in its entirety once the current tenancy ends. Is there a lead tenant named on the deposit protection certificate? They may need to be the one to request the full deposit back from the deposit scheme. It doesn't get returned automatically, the LL/tenant/both have to do something.

kelloggs36 wrote: »

Nowhere in the agreement does it state that £75 will be charged for cleaning: it actually states that a charge for cleaning will only be made IF the place is not clean when it is vacated. The others are remaining, and so no inspection or cleaning is to be undertaken when my DD vacates. My argument is that it either should be inspected so that it can be proven that any subsequent damage cannot be and should not be charged against her money as she has absolutely nothing to do with it! If they have chosen not to clean the property this year, then she should not be charged for it. Next year, the tenants may well choose to clean the property themselves as per the agreement and therefore no charge will be made anyway. it seems unfair to make her wait a whole year.

If there's no cleaning fee contractually agreed, then the LL can only make a deduction on actual damages. They don't have to DO the cleaning at all - its upto the LL how they spend their money. But they must prove it was necessary at the end of the tenancy (Aug 2018) to return the property to the condition in Aug 2017. This means an inspection/pictures/checkout/cleaning bill from Aug/Sept 2018, not a year later when the property has been under a NEW tenancy with NEW tenants.

As for next steps, I'd focus future communications on THIS tenancy ending, as the new tenancy has nothing to do with DD.
1) Get in writing who they want you to return keys to and confirmation that following the request would terminate DD's responsibility. Get a receipt when DD returns the keys
2) Once tenancy is over, request full deposit back from LL / deposit scheme, stating your tenancy is over, moved out, unless they have proof of damages before new tenancy started, you expect full deposit back.