GMP and deferred pension

DT2001

Latest reply from WTW is at the bottom of this post.

I have sent and asked for a copy of the Trust Rules and subsequent amendments.
Maybe I can find the answers in there.

It seems WTW will check at 65 that my GMP is being met although they said a test had been done to ensure that would be the case at retirement. (As you suggested the payment of a small tax free sum would seem to indicate this).

They will not provide examples even theoretical for early retirees

To recap I think the questions I need to resolve are:-
1. If at 65 my pension is all GMP can the State Pension abatement be deducted at SPA.
2. Definition of NRA as the guide says it may be different if
you were made redundant, or you are a man and your pension comprises GMP only.
3. The calculation at 65


Thank you for your email dated 13 August 2018.

I can confirm anti franking is the process of when male members reach age 65, their GMP age, and as per the below email their pension is split into revalued GMP and pension excess.

If a member’s GMP amount is greater than their current annual pension put into payment the member would receive a ‘step up’. We would increase the member’s pension in line with their GMP amount. If the member’s GMP amount is lower than the current annual pension put into payment there would be no changes made.

It is not the policy of the Barclays Bank UKRF to provide any figures based on assumptions.

As at date of leaving your total GMP amount was £1,339.00 per annum.

For GMP revaluations please find attached guide.

MikeFloutier

Hi Guys,

Ah, happy memories!

I just read through this thread. Reason for doing so is that I reach my GMP date age on 3 Feb 2019 and WTW had promised me, in writing, that they would give me my Step-up calculations around 6 months before this. I chased them up a few days ago and they told me this was a mistake and they now hoped to advise me of their figures 4 to 8 weeks prior to GMP date.

I had felt that 6 months was a suitable period to resolve any issues that may have arisen BUT as it's now 4 - 8 weeks I thought I'd start getting the anti-franking side of my brain back in gear once again: so here I am.

Not sure if I can make any sensible comments yet but the following occurred to me:

1. I have copies of all the relevant Barclays 1964 scheme rules in pdfs so do let me know if you don't get them from WTW.

2. I don't understand what they're saying in post 32. The English seems poor to my mind, are they saying that anti-franking will apply to you at GMP date? If so, apart from the "partial franking", already discussed, it can't possibly be justified, can it?

3. Although 2025 is a way off, I think it's good to get as much positive stuff in writing now as things may get tighter as time passes.

4. I'm now living in Cornwall by the way and will be following your progress with interest.

All the best, you're in good hands DT.

PS. I found my TPAS guy very helpful btw

xylophone

I thought I'd start getting the anti-franking side of my brain back in gear once again:

There's your masochistic side showing again......:eek:

xylophone

I can confirm anti franking is the process of when male members reach age 65, their GMP age, and as per the below email their pension is split into revalued GMP and pension excess.

What in the name of heaven does this mean?

MikeFloutier

xylophone wrote: »

What in the name of heaven does this mean?

Some of the things it does mean are:

1. They are perfectly willing, albeit in ignorance, to make statements, and, by implication, take actions, based on confused thinking (to be most charitable).

2. It's best not to get into rabbit-trail type arguments concerning that confused thinking, but rather,

3. We need to have a comprehensive and correct understanding of the true position - ie. an understanding of Pension Law plus Scheme Rules.

4. We then stand firm on this and challenge them to refute it; resorting to TPAS and the Ombudsman if needs be.

I appreciate that we know all this, I guess I'm just gearing myself up for the next round

DT2001

Thanks to you both.
Mike I might come back to you for the copy of the rules but WTW have a little time before their own deadlines.
Why can’t WTW provide a figure to Mike as I thought all parts of the equation were known i.e. excess amount at NRD and GMP at 65?
As you say the Rules are key as there is a caveat at the end of the guide which states that any errors are not binding.
My ER pension should have been enough to exceed the GMP at 65 but it might not be which raises the question of the calculation at ERD and the fact that I was paid a small lump sum.
Mike did you ever get confirmation of the ERD calculation as I think post 31 on your thread by Snowman was in line with how I understand GMP, anti franking and early leavers work. It seems iniquitous to fully frank but assume there was a good reason?
I wonder how many deferred pensioners are affected. Some leavers I knew could only take their pension at 60 because they weren’t on various redundancy/ER schemes. Others left later and their GMP revalued at lower rates and for shorter periods. It is surprising that WTW still refer to the booklet which it states is produced assuming you retire at NRD (and do not even clarify that).

MikeFloutier

Still catching up online and re-reading all my personal paperwork - struggling to open an encrypted file from WTW in 2013 that contained calculations of my NRD pension.

I assume your aware of -

https://www.lcp.uk.com/our-viewpoint/2017/11/hmrc-s-latest-update-confirms-the-countdown-to-the-end-of-gmp-reconciliations/

and more amusingly - https://www.lcp.uk.com/our-viewpoint/2017/08/getting-gmp-reconciliations-over-the-line/

A bit dated but gives some insight into the sort of responses we have been getting.

Turpinr

Has anybody had a good experience, outcome wise when dealing with WTW?

DT2001

Has anyone asked WTW if they have reconciled GMP records?
If so will they write to us instead of HMRC?

I was verbally advised by the in house Barclays Pension team, in 2010 I think, that the change in treatment of GMP accrual (i.e. revalued at 65 and not when drawn) was not advised to pensioners as it would confuse more than it would enlighten! Oh and it was not in line with trust rules.

We need to know what questions to ask which is why this forum is so good.

DT2001

Whilst waiting for WTW, patiently - Mike, Cornwall is a great place to be. We are just outside Plymouth, only downside is friends from the SouthEast seem to think it is too far to travel. Still, house prices are lower so more money to invest for retirement. Tony