GMP and deferred pension

MikeFloutier

DT2001 wrote: »

.676 according to that table ERF1.

Which by my reckoning puts your birthday in June and the AR factor at your ERD in November 2011 at 0.665; ie 5/12ths of the way from 0.653 to 0.682

DT2001

End of May and drawdown was 1/11.

When you and your friend ‘got’ WTW to agree to your calculation did you work out a template enquiry quoting the rules etc (showing a greater knowledge than most) or just sent an example for verification. I am very aware of the slow progress of getting any questions answered so would like to ensure as little toing and froing. If I can get a definitive answer Hopefully it will help others to get the correct amounts.

MikeFloutier

DT2001 wrote: »

End of May and drawdown was 1/11.

When you and your friend ‘got’ WTW to agree to your calculation did you work out a template enquiry quoting the rules etc (showing a greater knowledge than most) or just sent an example for verification. I am very aware of the slow progress of getting any questions answered so would like to ensure as little toing and froing. If I can get a definitive answer Hopefully it will help others to get the correct amounts.

Ok, not in any kind of order:

1. In WTW's email to me dd 10 Oct 2013 they said:

"Please find attached a copy of the consolidated Scheme Trust Deed and Rules applicable to your UKRF membership"

They sent me the 29th - 33rd Variations, which I emailed to you. Note that you only need the variation up to your date of leaving employment. So these are all you need!

2. They also said, in that email:

"To help you make a decision in respect of your retirement, I have recreated the example on page 10 of the booklet you have referred to, using the figures applicable to your normal retirement calculation"

I have loaded a photo of this to Googledrive as the original is password protected. Here is a link - https://drive.google.com/open?id=1LCSxrb_w_S8n6OvEG3LWXaUIPIqteenA

This is the same as my own version that appeared in Post 136

3. My friend's "page 10" follows the same format, as I said it was accepted and paid.

4. In writing your own version of "page 10", assuming the figures are all correct and legal (something we have already discussed in getting to the current version) the remaining vital component, as you rightly mention, is to make sure that every figure is either self-explanatory or has an explanation in the form of a sub-title (much as they already do).


Then, when we submit the "page 10" for verification, we don't seek to justify it. They will either accept it, or, if not, they will have to refute it in some legal way. Only at that stage do we resort to Pension Law and Scheme Rules to prove the issue.


Finally, I think our remaining goal, at this stage, is to read and re-read your version of "page 10", when available, in order to verify it in terms of accuracy (of base figures), legality and readability.


Ps. My friend was advised by WTW, in writing, that his total pension at GMP date would be £9,418.49. After great perseverance, they finally agreed AND paid in full the sum of £14,520.33

xylophone

You have signally failed to get WTW to answer a simple question as to whether the p10 example applies to those who take early retirement.

However, see post 22.

It would appear that had you provided a calculation, WTW would have been prepared to comment on the accuracy of the method?

Send a calculation and ask for comment?

xylophone

I ( and presumably you!) would like to know what WTW mean when they state

In respect of your benefits, I can confirm that anti franking legislation does not apply.

MikeFloutier

xylophone wrote: »

In respect of your benefits, I can confirm that anti franking legislation does not apply.

What about driving on the left? does that apply?

Did you read Catch 22? I remember a great quote from it that said, "They can do anything that you can't stop them doing"


PS. That quote at the top is from WTW btw, not Xylophone as I accidentally implied - Oops

DT2001

I have given up on getting answers to enlighten us as I have received the latest reply from WTW.
It refers to my email of 4/8 when I asked for a copy of the rules and reiterated some unanswered questions. The reply enclosed copy of variation 55 - nothing else. Ughhhhhhhhhhhh

So we go with Mike's suggestion on post 114. I'll work on the page 10 table and post for improvements.

MikeFloutier

btw I've not heard of this before so I'll share it.

TPAS have a "live chat" service that could be helpful in certain situations.

It's at - https://www.pensionsadvisoryservice.org.uk/chat

They were of the opinion that the last variation of scheme rules before date of leaving is the cut-off for any relevant changes.

xylophone

I have given up on getting answers to enlighten us

"I do not ask to see the distant scene" just how to get there would be enough for me?

But really when you are told that "anti franking does not apply to your pension" and when you ask what "anti franking is" you are told (albeit inaccurately)

I can confirm anti franking is the process of when male members reach age 65, their GMP age, and as per the below email their pension is split into revalued GMP and pension excess.

and you have been told

At GMP age your pension will split between your excess and GMP,



and you are told

It is not the policy of the Barclays Bank UKRF to provide any figures based on assumptions.


and yet the p10 example

This assumes that total pension has been increased
by 2.5% since Normal Retirement Age .......

I honestly think that you have grounds to complain to the Trustees about the degree of obfuscation and plain ignorance being shown by the company they have chosen to administer the scheme.

DT2001

Calculation re P 10
Pension at date of leaving membership of the scheme 31/12/1995
Designated GMP portion £1339
Non GMP portion £4661.32
Total deferred pension £6000.32

Estimated pension at 1/11/2011
Designated GMP portion £1339
Non GMP portion (including annual increases since leaving active membership) £7396

Total deferred pension £8735

Estimated actuarially reduced value of Non GMP portion at 1/11/2011
£7396 * 0.626 (figure from 2003 quote) £4629

Estimated total pension on day before 65th birthday (20/5/2025)
This assumes total pension increases from £7559 (as of today) by 2.5% p.a. £8985

Estimated pension at GMP payment date (21/5/2025)
GMP portion (£1339 revalued at 7% for each complete tax year since
leaving active service) £9529
Non GMP portion (see note 1 below) £4629
estimated total pension in payment from age 65 from the scheme £14158

Note 1
Increases in pension from retirement date are offset against GMP revaluation therefore non GMP
portion reverts to actuarially adjusted value at drawdown on 1/11/2011
This is also known as a 'step-up' and in this example is £5173

Suggested covering 'letter'

I refer to our recent correspondence and would like to put into figures the information that you have provided. I have used the example on page 10 of the booklet that you sent as guidance.
Can you confirm that the method is correct. If any part is wrong please provide me with an example appropriate to early retirement.

I want to keep it short to minimise the chance of what I term a 'non-reply'
Any tweaks?