Response from VCS - advice please?

bdee83

I recently acquired a PCN from VCS for parking on what was apparently private land at 10pm in Newcastle city center. I must note my car is a company car leased from Zenith motors.

I contested the charge and send the following via my parking charge - this was taken from the thread on MSE by elmarcinio "Late arrive of PCN for leased vehicle - Highview Parking" (I can't post link).

My letter was as follows:
I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (VCXXXXX) issued to me by VCS Ltd as a Notice to Driver. I confirm that as the lessee of this vehicle, I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA) and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN.

You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why VCS's Notice to Driver did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.
Given that VCS Ltd has forfeited its right to keeper liability, please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA.
Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.
Yours faithfully, lovely person who didn't see tiny sign"

I have since had the following response from VCS which makes me feel they are trying to lure me in to a trap of sorts..
"We refer to correspondence received from you concerning the above numbered Charge Notice.
Please note that responsibility for this Charge lies with the driver of the vehicle at the time the parking contravention
was observed. However, it appears from what you have stated in your appeal that you were not the driver on the
date in question.
In order for us to process your appeal correctly, please follow the instructions below:
1. Notify the driver of the vehicle that they will need to appeal to us directly, including their FULL NAME (Forename
and Surname) and a valid FULL SERVICEABLE ADDRESS within 14 days.
2. If you are representing the driver we require a signed and dated statement from the driver of the vehicle confirming
that you are authorised to appeal on his/her behalf; this needs to be an original signature and not a photocopy or a
stamp. The statement MUST contain the drivers FULL NAME (Forename and Surname) and a valid FULL
SERVICEABLE ADDRESS.
Please ensure that correspondence is submitted through the portal myparkingcharge in order to correctly
adhere with the appeals process.
OR
3. Pay the PCN. Payments can be made online at myparkingcharge by following the links for "Pay Now",
or over the phone by calling 0845 226 9138 and using a valid Credit or Debit Card to make payment. It is your
responsibility to ensure that payment is received within our office by the date specified.
As a gesture of goodwill we have placed the charge on hold for an additional period of 14 Days to enable one of the
above actions to be complied with.
We are willing to re-offer you the original discounted charge of £60 as full and final settlement of this Notice, if
payment is received within our office on or before the 03/07/18.
19 June 2018
If payment is not received by this date, the amount payable will revert to £100. Failure to pay this charge within the
stated times, may result in Debt Recovery Action being taken and further costs up to an additional £60 being incurred.
Yours sincerely,
Robbing b*&^ards"

Is anyone in the forum able to give me some advice on how to proceed with this please? I don't wish to give them any details for fear i'm putting a noose around my neck, however I do not wish to just ignore it either.

Many thanks in advance

Umkomaas

Tell them that you have appealed this as the lessee of the vehicle (as you are entitled to do). You are under no obligation to provide them with the driver's details - the resposibility to identify the driver is theirs.

As they have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, paragraph 13, the liability for any charge cannot pass to you as the vehicle's lessee. And, you don't expect to hear any more from them or any of their agents (but don't hold your breath!).

By the way, POPLA was never available to you (BPA operators only), just the much maligned IAS (where hardly any appeal is successful, so forget any further appeal process).

VCS might sue, but nothing you can do to stop that unless you pay.

Coupon-mad

however I do not wish to just ignore it either.

But you do ignore them, now. It's an IPC firm and these cases are all the same. No next step till they try court, if they do. That's where these cases are won.

The_Deep

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.

Ian011

bdee83 wrote: »

3. Pay the PCN. Payments can be made online at myparkingcharge by following the links for "Pay Now", or over the phone by calling 0845 226 9138 and using a valid Credit or Debit Card to make payment.

It is illegal for a premium rate 0845 number to be offered for contact. This breach of consumer protection regulations can be reported to Trading Standards via the Citizen's Advice national Consumer Helpline either via their website or by calling 0345 404 0506.

The law changed more than four years ago. More than four years later, the breach of regulations continues, presumably because no-one has bothered to report it.

beamerguy

Ian011 wrote: »

It is illegal for a premium rate 0845 number to be offered for contact. This breach of consumer protection regulations can be reported to Trading Standards via the Citizen's Advice national Consumer Helpline either via their website or by calling 0345 404 0506.

The law changed more than four years ago. More than four years later, the breach of regulations continues, presumably because no-one has bothered to report it.

But, did you know that some mobile operators charge
a higher than standard rate for 0345 numbers.
That's why the DWP changed to 080 series number free for all.

0345 numbers can cost Up to 55p/minute, surely not on
a consumer helpline

KeithP

beamerguy wrote: »

But, did you know that some mobile operators charge
a higher than standard rate for 0345 numbers.

Not sure that's right.

From this Ofcom webpage:

Revenue sharing

Calls to 03 numbers cost no more than a national rate call to an 01 or 02 number and must count towards any inclusive minutes in the same way as 01 and 02 calls.

These rules apply to calls from any type of line including mobile, BT, other fixed line or payphone.

Revenue sharing !!!8211; where the dialled party can receive a share of what the consumer pays to make a call !!!8211; is also not allowed on calls to 03 numbers.

beamerguy

KeithP wrote: »

Not sure that's right.

From this Ofcom webpage:

As an example

DWP Customer Service Phone Numbers
Department Phone Number Price
DWP State Pensions 0345 606 0265 Up to 55p/minute
DWP Claims 0800 731 7898 Free Number
DWP Maternity Allowance 0345 608 8610 Up to 55p/minute
DWP New benefit claims (Telephone) 0800 055 6688 Free Number

And those dialling the DWP are now transfered to an 0800
number automatically.

Hoping that the consumer helpline does the same

KeithP

Ah, that is because 03 calls can cost no more that 01 and 02 calls - as my earlir quote from Ofcom said.

Ofcom also say (on that sane webpage):

01 and 02 numbers: geographic numbers

...

Calls from landlines are typically charged up to 13p per minute.Call costs from mobiles vary according to the calling plan chosen. Typically they cost between 1p and 55p per minute or are included in free call packages.

So yes, an 03 number can cost up to 55p, but only where 01 and 02 numbers cost that.

It is up to the consumer to choose the correct tariff for their needs.

beamerguy

KeithP wrote: »

Ah, that is because 03 calls can cost no more that 01 and 02 calls - as my earlir quote from Ofcom said.

Ofcom also say (on that sane webpage):

So yes, an 03 number can cost up to 55p, but only where 01 and 02 numbers cost that.

It is up to the consumer to choose the correct tariff for their needs.

And we expect the consumer to understand that ???

They won't until their phone bill arrives.

I think this forum alone demonstrates the sheer lack
of consumer knowledge.

Point now being is that if we refer people to the consumer
helpline can we be certain that the 0345 number is not another
chargeable profit making line

Someone must know

Ian011

Call charges for calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers are set entirely by the caller's landline or mobile provider. Revenue sharing is not permitted. The rules for call charges for 03 numbers are that these calls must be charged to the caller on the same basis as their calls to 01 and 02 numbers. This has been the case since 03 numbers were introduced in 2007.

Most landline providers offer Unlimited Anytime inclusive calls for around £9 per month. If the caller exceeds their allowance (by making a call that is more than 60 minutes long) or chooses a deal without an inclusive allowance in force at the time of day of making the call, landline providers charge around 22p per call PLUS around 11p to 13p per minute for these calls. It is up to the caller to choose the right call plan for their needs.

Most mobile providers offer a choice of Unlimited calls for around £10 per month (excluding handset costs) on monthly contracts or around £15 on pay-as-you-go deals. They also offer various smaller allowances for lower monthly charges. If the caller exceeds the allowance, or chooses a deal without an inclusive allowance, some mobile providers charge around 3p, 5p or 8p per minute while others charge 45p, 50p, 55p or 58p per minute for the same calls. Again, it is up to the caller to choose the right call plan for their needs.

Calls to 03 numbers are not premium rate. It is 084, 087 and 09 numbers that are premium rate. The premium is the additional Service Charge paid to the benefit of the called party and their telecoms provider. The Service Charge is in addition to the Access Charge set and retained by the caller's landline or mobile phone provider.

See also:
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/contacting-08-and-03-numbers

beamerguy wrote: »

But, did you know that some mobile operators charge a higher than standard rate for 0345 numbers.

Ofcom regulations require callers to be charged the same to call 03 numbers as whatever they pay to call 01 and 02 numbers. Those charges are set by the caller's phone provider.

beamerguy wrote: »

That's why the DWP changed to 080 series number free for all.

DWP changed to 080 numbers as Cabinet Office guidance says that 080 numbers should be used for essential services where the caller may not have the money to make a call at any non-zero price.

beamerguy wrote: »

0345 numbers can cost Up to 55p/minute, surely not on a consumer helpline

Anyone paying 55p per minute to call 03 numbers will be paying exactly the same to call 01 and 02 numbers and is clearly on the wrong call plan. Why pay £33 per hour for calls when unlimited calls for a whole month generally costs around £9 to £15?