Landlady selling house - agency pushing for Contractual Periodic Tenancy

BadAtHaggling

Hi all,

Sorry if this has been covered many times before on the forum, I've had a look at some useful threads (including G_M's excellent fixed post "A) What happens when a fixed term AST ends" etc - not allowed to post the link as a new user) but would like some specific advice from those in the know please.

I have been renting a property with my partner for 6 years via a letting agency on a fixed-term tenancy. We have renewed this yearly and have been charged a renewal fee of £60 each time - we were made aware of these recurring fees upfront so could not really contest them. We didn't know when we would be ready to look at buying ourselves which is why we didn't request the fixed term to be longer than a year each time.

We were informed in April that our landlady wanted to sell the house and within a week of being told photos had been taken, rooms measured and the property was listed on various sites online. The property needs a huge amount of renovation and modernisation but has not been priced accordingly - as a result it has only had 3 viewings (and no offers) in nearly 8 weeks. This seems poor considering we are in a very popular area (fairly upmarket and very close to a train station) and houses tend to sell quickly. The valuer susupected it would need to be reduced by at least 30 grand before it would sell.

Anyway...our current fixed-term contract end on 6th July. The letting agent emailed us to request that we move on to a Contractual Periodic Tenancy (for which we would be charged another £60 fee) and confirmed this would mean both parties had to serve 2 months' notice to end the contract. I can't see anything in our fixed contract about moving to a CPT automatically (no doubt omitted deliberately so that a new contract could be drawn up).

I replied asking whether we could instead move on to a Statutory Periodic Tenancy once the fixed term had finished. Obviously this would mean no renewal fee and, I believe, a notice period of 1 month rather than 2 since we pay rent on a monthly basis. Unsurprisingly, the agent declined - they said that they had spoken to the landlady and that she would prefer to move onto a CPT.

Here's the thing - the landlady is in her 80s, doesn't have an email address or use the internet (we know this from what we've been told from both agency workers and contractors who know her personally) and will be doing exactly what the letting agent asks for a quiet life - there is no way the agency will have told her that a SPT is more or less the same as the CPT but without the renewal fee (which I believe we both pay half of). She is extremely tight with her money and I'm fairly sure she would jump at the chance to save £60.

Unfortuately I don't have any contact details for the landlady and am nervous to ask for these. Ideally I would like to speak to her on the phone but legally I think we could only request her address - is that right?

I'm not sure what to do, should I just move on to the CPT and pay the fee (even though we may only be in the property for another 2 months if the landlady wants us out) or continue to contest this?

Our situation is that we are now in a position to buy (and have been since shortly before we knew our house was going on the market) but are finding it difficult to find suitable properties. We did bid on a house a few weeks ago but were outbid despite a starting offer above the asking price. We can't afford to buy where we live now and wouldn't want to deal with the huge task of renovating it even if we could.

The next few months are going to be uncertain for us and, once we are served notice, we will just have to organise renting elsewhere which may then hinder our buying plan depending on whether we can find anywhere with a short-term contract (or at least with a 6 month break clause). Or perhaps we should rent elswhere as soon as possible before we have to arrange this in a panic?

It's tricky as we suspect it will be a long time before the property sells but obviously there are no guarantees. The main con of a SPT seems to be the reduced notice period with the CPT at least having the security of 2 months...

Sorry for the essay folks. Any advice would be really appreciated! Thanks in advance.

Clare

franklee

BadAtHaggling wrote: »

legally I think we could only request her address - is that right?

Yes, to do this you have to write to the agent and request it. The act doesn't say phone number or email.

Section 1 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985:

1 Disclosure of landlord's identity.

(1) If the tenant of premises occupied as a dwelling makes a written request for the landlord's name and address to;

(a) any person who demands, or the last person who received, rent payable under the tenancy, or

(b) any other person for the time being acting as agent for the landlord, in relation to the tenancy,

that person shall supply the tenant with a written statement of the landlord's name and address within the period of 21 days beginning with the day on which he receives the request.

Address is defined by the 1985 Act as a person's place of abode or place of business or, in the case of a company, it's registered office.

BadAtHaggling wrote: »

should I just move on to the CPT and pay the fee (even though we may only be in the property for another 2 months if the landlady wants us out) or continue to contest this?

I would do nothing and if you are in occupation after the fixed term ends a SPT will arise automatically. All the terms of the tenancy remain the same except those to end the tenancy.

Advantages to you are you save the fee and if you are looking to move one periods notice is much easier to coordinate moving than two so you will save on wasting rent during the overlap when you have both properties on the go at once.

BadAtHaggling wrote: »

Or perhaps we should rent elswhere as soon as possible before we have to arrange this in a panic?

Tricky call.

What you really need to know is does the landlady plan to evict you and keep the property vacant while it sells or does she want the rent coming in during that time?

Usual advice for landlord selling is to evict the tenant and then market. However some landlords want to keep rent comming in as long as possible. Your landlady sounds like the latter given it's already on the market with you there and they are offering a new tenancy rather than serving notice to leave.

If the current property is that overpriced it may not sell for ages so if you don't mind the odd viewing staying put may be cheaper. OTOH renting a new place will be a minimum of six months so the later you do that the later the first six months ends. Then again moving is costly and time consuming.

I would be inclined to stay put and concentrate on finding the place to buy.

BadAtHaggling wrote: »

The main con of a SPT seems to be the reduced notice period with the CPT at least having the security of 2 months...

A SPT is minimum one period's notice ending at the end of a period from the tenant and two months notice from the landlord. The CPT may specify the landlord's notice must be whole periods too but even so the notice they need to give you isn't hugely different between SPT and CPT.

anselld

There is no advantage to you in the CPT offer so just ignore it and don't pay the £60 fee.

00ec25

the agency has "invented" a CPT because that is the only way they will get a fee since the "renewal" of the fixed is obviously no longer possible and the agency knows all too well that an SPT cannot be charged for since it does not "exist" as an actionable bit of paper

ignore the agency and carry on to a SPT. As stated the LL has to give 2 months anyway as that is the law, the suggested CPT is to your detriment since it is trying to make you move up to the 2 months that the LL has no option but to give in any such circumstance anyway

BadAtHaggling

Thanks so much for the replies, very useful. I've spoken to my partner about this and he's not happy with ignoring the agency's requests to sign a CPT as he's concerned they may then be less favourable to us when it comes to things like our deposit or recommending to the LL that we are served notice asap.

I can see where he's coming from and can imagine them trying to claw back the £60 by saying they had to use cleaners etc, things it will be difficult to challenge them on. He doesn't want to "annoy" them during this uncertain period. I get that, but I also know they're taking advantage of us and hate the idea of us throwing the money away.

Can the 2 months' notice from the LL be guaranteed on a SPT? How would we challenge this legally without a written contract if for example they suddenly served us 1 month's notice and claimed that was ok?

anselld

There is no circumstance when 1 month from the L is "OK". You would challenge it by not leaving until the L had obtained a Court Order which he could not do without giving 2 months notice.

You really don't need to be nice to the LA to the extent of giving them money for nothing. You are protected by the deposit scheme and you are intending to buy so you don't need a reference.

franklee

BadAtHaggling wrote: »

Can the 2 months' notice from the LL be guaranteed on a SPT? How would we challenge this legally without a written contract if for example they suddenly served us 1 month's notice and claimed that was ok?

The notice is enacted by statute "statutory periodic tenancy". That's cast iron and as good as it gets.

You could compromise by offering to pay the £60 for a SPT. It will be paying them to do nothing but at least the notice you have to give will be halved which will save you rent when you move due to less overlap between properties.


Or you could pay £60 for a CPT that allows you to give one months notice.



I would certainly not pay £60 to get worse terms for yourself under the CPT, that's being a doormat.

BadAtHaggling

Ok, thank you. I agree about not having to be "nice" to the LA but I also know they are quite underhand and feel like we'd be watching our backs a bit, especially as the LL will go with all their recommendations. But I do understand what you're saying.

I hadn't thought of references - we may end up having to rent asap if we can't buy quickly enough. Could they give us a poor reference then on that basis?

Pixie5740

I thought you had read G_M's guide? You have statutory rights which include how much notice your landlord is required to give and how/when money can be deducted from your deposit. Note that any notice from the landlord is just notice that she might go to court to get a possession order not that you must leave by the date on the notice. It's the landlord who would have to take you to court not the letting agency and my money is the landlord keeping you in the property as close to exchange (if she finds a buyer) as possible.

Paying £60 to the letting agent gives you no more security than not paying it.

BadAtHaggling

Thanks franklee. My last message was in response to anselld - my phone doesn't seem to let me quote people.

franklee

BadAtHaggling wrote: »

Ok, thank you. I agree about not having to be "nice" to the LA but I also know they are quite underhand and feel like we'd be watching our backs a bit, especially as the LL will go with all their recommendations. But I do understand what you're saying.

I hadn't thought of references - we may end up having to rent asap if we can't buy quickly enough. Could they give us a poor reference then on that basis?

If you are a soft touch they can walk all over you on these issues regardless.



References - they probably won't give an untrue one but they could decline to give one. But you have bank statements to prove you paid rent on time and emails to show you were diligent at reporting faults and agreed to inspections etc. Also can you ask a previous landlord for a reference.



Agents are used to other agents playing games. A bad tenant is likely to get a good reference as the landlord will not want to impede their moving out. Plus good tenants can fall out with a landlord through no fault of their own.


If you were that bad they would not have offered you the CPT and you have that offer in writing so you can easily explain the scenario to your nest landlord.