FTB - lack of building regs and investigations refused

plummie

Hello,

I could really do with some advice about a property I am in the middle of purchasing. I am a FTB very close to exchanging (surveys/mortgage/searches complete) however our survey identified works for which there are no building regs (load bearing wall removal and chimney breast removed at ground floor, remaining from first floor) and our surveyor subsequently advised us to open up the structures and have a structural engineer check the supports are adequate.

I have asked the vendors to permit me to do these investigations, the vendors bluntly refused investigations under any circumstances (I was offering to pay for these). After identifying the solicitor would need to disclose lack of regs the vendor still bluntly refused, I have also tried to appeal to them directly (via email as they had previously contacted me) setting out exactly why I was concerned and still they refuse.

I am now at a point where I feel I am being backed into a corner and am strongly considering pulling out of the purchase. I no longer feel excited about the purchase, just stressed and concerned and I worry that proceeding and investigating AFTER completion will cause me further stress ruining the house buying process and also potentially open up a can of worms.

Has anyone else been in this situation and what would you advise?

It may be helpful to note:
- a full building survey was carried out
- this is in London so the property is very expensive
- losing the survey/solicitors fees paid to date would be painful but I originally budgeted for this just in case
- the works were not carried out by the vendors themselves but the property is Victorian and we have no evidence of when the wirkdcwere done which adds to the concern
- other works have been carried out without regs (small conservatory and other chimney breasts removed but surveyor was not concerned with these)

Thank you for your help

DCFC79

If your not happy with it then yes dont proceed. Maybe give them an ultimatum, they let you to carry out the investigations or you pull out.

Have they given a reason for not letting you do the investigations ?

plummie

DCFC79 wrote: »

If your not happy with it then yes dont proceed. Maybe give them an ultimatum, they let you to carry out the investigations or you pull out.

Have they given a reason for not letting you do the investigations ?

Their reasoning is that they think the investigations are speculative because the survey originally said ‘ensure there are building reg Certificates’. I have tried to explain that was said because it would prove the supports were adequate and the subsequent advise was to open up but that has not been acknowledged. I also don’t know how they would expect the surveyor to be able to make a definitive comment either way without being able to verify the supports.

A_Nice_Englishman

I had an offer accepted on a 1970s property which suited me perfectly. It had an extension which the estate agent assured me 'complied with building regulations at the time it was built' although there was no paperwork 'the builder built the house for his own occupation and wouldn't have done anything dodgy'.

My surveyor told me the extension wasn't compliant with building regs and wouldn't have been when it was built either. I withdrew my offer but mitigated my costs somewhat by selling my survey report to another buyer

If you really, really wanted the property I'd say ask your surveyor the maximum possible cost of remediation based on what the vendor is prepared to let him inspect and reduce your offer by that much.

As it is, I'd run a mile.

dunroving

If you really want to get their attention, tell them (via their solicitor) that you are planning to call the Council to find out the process for getting retrospective building consents. That should get their attention.

If you do call the Council, do not under any circumstances tell them what address you are enquiring about. That would be purely vindictive.

eddddy

Depending on the precise circumstances, I might have some sympathy for the sellers.

You're asking them to allow you to get plaster hacked off walls, to expose steel joists and supports etc underneath.

If the rooms are currently nicely decorated, after re-plastering, it will be difficult to 'patch paint' the repaired plaster. To do a good job, whole rooms might need to be redecorated.

Why is the surveyor suspicious? Do the relevant areas look freshly plastered and freshly painted? Perhaps to hide cracking?

Or does the surveyor suspect that the work was done very recently?

What the surveyor is asking for is pretty extreme.

TamsinC

If the work is more than 20 years old there wont be buildings regs in the same way as now anyway. Not sure I'd allow someone in the house to hack my walls etc around before exchange - your builder could leave a right mess and you might still not buy. As the work is historic if there was going to be a problem with it I would have expected it to have shown problems by now if any were going too ensue.

SG27

DCFC79 wrote: »

If your not happy with it then yes dont proceed. Maybe give them an ultimatum, they let you to carry out the investigations or you pull out.

Have they given a reason for not letting you do the investigations ?

The reason is no one in their right mind is going to allow you to pull their house apart on the chance you might then buy it.

What if you open it up then pull out without making good?
What if damage is done by the builders?

Also, if the building work was done some years ago it will not meent current building regs anyway.

Your options are, get the seller to pay for an indemnity policy.
And/or reduce your offer to take into account the risk of potential work needing doing.

Kyresa

ref an indemnity policy.

Remember it just covers you against enforcement action should the local authority ever take it. It does not cover you for shoddy work that needs repair in the future.

plummie

eddddy wrote: »

Depending on the precise circumstances, I might have some sympathy for the sellers.

You're asking them to allow you to get plaster hacked off walls, to expose steel joists and supports etc underneath.

If the rooms are currently nicely decorated, after re-plastering, it will be difficult to 'patch paint' the repaired plaster. To do a good job, whole rooms might need to be redecorated.

Why is the surveyor suspicious? Do the relevant areas look freshly plastered and freshly painted? Perhaps to hide cracking?

Or does the surveyor suspect that the work was done very recently?

What the surveyor is asking for is pretty extreme.

We have spoken to a number of structural engineers to try to understand the degree of works. The common response is that if possible they would go under the floorboards and if not the plaster removal would likely be 15cm by 15cm.

The property is nicely decorated but the beam section itself is a seperate colour to the room so in theory the most that would be needed is that section of wall repainting, for the kitchen I agree you may prefer to repaint the whole ceiling but as the area which would need investigating is above kitchen cupboards it wouldn!!!8217;t be that noticeable.

The surveyor didn!!!8217;t mention cracks etc but it!!!8217;s evident the whole house has been decorated relatively recently (vendors have only been there for 4 years). Probably just to the vendors taste but without any evidence it!!!8217;s very hard to know.

I also appreciate the works may have been done at a time when regs didn!!!8217;t exist - which is fine - but on that basis it seems more important to confirm everything is ok or to at least know the extent of repair works required before we commit.

I!!!8217;d also like to add that we would be happy to pay to make good after investigations if we then dropped out. We haven!!!8217;t explicitly stated this to the sellers but as we were told !!!8216;under no circumstances!!!8217; it felt like it wouldn!!!8217;t change their mind.

bouicca21

When was it done? If decades ago and all still standing, then it's pretty well certain it's structurally ok.

Some 30 years ago a friend owned a Victorian house in south east London where the chimney breast had been taken out on the ground floor but not on the floor above. No one had any idea whether supports had been put in, or when the work had been done. House was ok then, and is still standing, so despite lack of plans, permissions etc, the work was obviously done to an adequate standard.