Operation required work say I can't have time off on this date

ReadingTim

sangie595 wrote: »

I really shouldn't, but I'm bored... Dead bodies are washed, therefore they dry.....

Although a more appropriate word to convey speed after death might be "cold".

TELLIT01

sangie595 wrote: »

I have no sympathy with the employer here at all, but we need to be careful in the advice given. Almost all surgery is elective - "medical necessity" is a very elastic term. Many things people assume are medical necessities are not, in fact, necessary.

Agreed, apart from absolute medical emergency where the patient is unconcious, virtually all surgery is strictly speaking 'elective'. i.e. The patient decides (elects) to have the treatment. A patient may be in so much pain that they can't function properly, but if the cause of the pain isn't immediately life threatening surgery can be delayed.
However, an employer to expect an employee to defer surgery because it will inconvenience the employer is totally unacceptable.

sangie595

TELLIT01 wrote: »

Agreed, apart from absolute medical emergency where the patient is unconcious, virtually all surgery is strictly speaking 'elective'. i.e. The patient decides (elects) to have the treatment. A patient may be in so much pain that they can't function properly, but if the cause of the pain isn't immediately life threatening surgery can be delayed.
However, an employer to expect an employee to defer surgery because it will inconvenience the employer is totally unacceptable.

I totally agree. But unacceptable and unlawful aren't the same thing. IF the employer were to dismiss then a tribunal would have to decide whether that dismissal were fair. But the problem is that it wouldn't decide on the basis of whether the individual needed the operation or not. It would be based solely on whether the employer had reasonable grounds to dismiss. They probably wouldn't - but I can't guarantee that and neither could anyone else. Technically, in law, I could certainly come up with reasons why a dismissal on such grounds might be fair. Hence, as I said, this is like any other situation - you follow the correct process and use the grievance procedure of agreement cannot be reached.

System

I work in retail and have colleagues having surgery and the needed post op recovery time during last 6 weeks of the year.

I did get a date for my eye procedure on 21st December, but asked to change it to 5 weeks later as I wouldn't be able to enjoy Christmas and in Jan, the trade dies down as people can't afford things has got paid 20th Dec for only not to be paid again til 31st Jan.

System

What happens if you or another colleague requires an immediate and emergency operation such as a burst appendix during the times that are unavailable to have preplanned surgery?

prowla

The employer is a pretty rubbish one if they are simply unable to function because someone has to have an operation.

glentoran99

ScarletMarble wrote: »

What happens if you or another colleague requires an immediate and emergency operation such as a burst appendix during the times that are unavailable to have preplanned surgery?

Life moves on and the world keeps turning

[Deleted User]

rocketqueen wrote: »

I've known for a couple of weeks that I will need surgery shortly. So I warned work and they advised me that I wouldn't be able to take the time off on certain dates in the next couple of months due to a variety of different reasons.

I've just got the date and inevitably it's on one of the dates work have said I can't take off .

The surgery is medically necessary, not cosmetic and quite urgent as I am in a lot of pain. It is on the NHS and under general anaesthetic etc.

My question is can my work tell me I cannot have the time off for this operation, as I am worried that if I cancel the surgery then I will either wait months or if a new appointment comes it will again be on a date I can't go.

I never take time off sick but this time really need the time off for this surgery.

Did you actually shown them the letter that confirms surgery? I think you would get further.

Even on my last doctors appointment, when our company benefits are time off for a doctors appt, I found myself asked to make the time up because we had hit a crucial time in the project and I was very busy in what has been a stand alone role.

Recently I was told, again, I was rudely taking holiday, (my feelings are they shouldn’t be allowed to say stuff like this when it was indeed the company who approved and perhaps they should have put a bit more thought in before doing so) very next day, anyway, the person who said this was being all nicey nice so I’ll hope it has all blown over for you.

sangie595

ScarletMarble wrote: »

What happens if you or another colleague requires an immediate and emergency operation such as a burst appendix during the times that are unavailable to have preplanned surgery?

You would be very ill, and hence you would be signed off sick immediately! So the surgery would be done during a period of sickness! If it were done....

The problem here is that elective surgery covers almost everything. Why? Well if you think about it, because compulsory surgery isn't something we usually allow, and courts are usually involved! There is no such thing as a risk free cure... You take a drug, and that drug could kill you. You have surgery and the surgery could kill you. You could easily die of something you didn't have before the surgery!

It just so happens that regular readers here will know that I had major surgery on Monday. Before that happened the consultant went through the surgery, what good outcome I might get, what bad outcome I might get, and what could kill me or make me very sick as a result. And I had to sign a paper that said I'd been told all that, that I understood it, and that I agreed to have the surgery. Ok? So that's "elective" - I chose to have the surgery.

Now in my case the surgery was not for something that is life threatening, albeit it is for serious mobility issues. So if I don't have it, within the next year I will probably be totally unable to walk, but that is my choice. I have the right to choose that. But let's say it was for something life threatening - that burst appendix. I'm not going to choose not to have such surgery, am I? Well yes, actually I might. I might, for example, believe so strongly in the power of prayer that I eschew all medical intervention. People do! It is my legal right to say that I chose not to have surgery - any surgery, even that which might save my life. The medical staff can try to convince me, but they cannot operate against my wishes.

If, say, I were unconscious and unable to make a choice, they would attempt to obtain permission to operate from a family member if at all possible, and would only choose to operate without permission if they had no other choice; and hence they are legally required to then make decisions in my best interests according to what they believe is medically necessary and what a rational person would decide. If they have any inkling that I would refuse - let's say I carry a card that says I refuse any and all medical intervention, and they've found it - then they must abide by my wishes.

So generally, even life saving medical intervention is "elective". That is why, sometimes, doctors and parents end up in court. Because both parties may have the very best of intentions, but their opinions on medical intervention, either to live or die, are diametrically opposed. Such cases generate massive emotional wells, as people debate the rights and wrongs of both sides. This rarely happens with adults, but it can.

So actually, the surgery thing is, in employment terms, a red herring here. The question is the leave. The OP is not sick, or they would be signed off. And you can't "plan" sickness in advance! So they need another kind of leave. And all other kinds of leave need the employer to agree them. The law probably needs another category of leave for medically advised absence, but given how very rare it is that an employer really refuses, it isn't something that is on the radar.

getmore4less

Go to the GP and get signed off for the week of the surgery.

You are clearly worried and upset by the situation and anxious about the outcome of the surgery, so much you can't focus on anything especially work.