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A lesson in being a sole freeholder and living on site.
divadee
Posts: 10,608 Forumite
2 years ago we bought the freehold to our block of 4 flats. None of the other leaseholders were interested in buying the freehold (short sighted as all but our leases are below 70 years now).
We didn't want the freehold to be sold on the open market and be at the whim of an external freeholder charging what ever they wanted for service charges etc.....
Well it's hard work. We have a management company doing the day to day running but it does not stop the other leaseholders hassling us when we are home.
One example is they want the front garden completely hard surface so parking would be easier for all. 2 of the 3 leaseholders have been moaning about it for months. So we get 3 quotes for the work. It averaged at about 16k so £4k per flat. We write to them all with the quotes and say we will issue section 20 consultations if they want us to go ahead. Then all hell breaks loose with them saying how unfair it is that they have to pay that much money out for car parking etc...... They can't afford that amount of money and they want to leave it.
They moan at every bit of maintenance that has to be done to the block. We had a blocked drain recently that meant raw sewage was pouring into the road. They moaned how they would have to pay for it. They are moaning about having the gutters cleared and cleaned and how that is costing them service charges.
One has moaned that they have a "structural issue" in their flat with cracking on a wall. A surveyor has been out and it's cosmetic cracking. They are expecting that the money to fix the cracking to come out of the service charge from all the flats sigh.
I can understand why people sell off a freehold when you have to live on site and it not being a shared freehold. It makes it very draining.
We now have a robotic stance of "you need to contact the management company" and refuse to get drawn in to any conversation about the block and maintenance etc.... it is draining though living through it all.
Just a word of warning to anyone considering what we have done.
We didn't want the freehold to be sold on the open market and be at the whim of an external freeholder charging what ever they wanted for service charges etc.....
Well it's hard work. We have a management company doing the day to day running but it does not stop the other leaseholders hassling us when we are home.
One example is they want the front garden completely hard surface so parking would be easier for all. 2 of the 3 leaseholders have been moaning about it for months. So we get 3 quotes for the work. It averaged at about 16k so £4k per flat. We write to them all with the quotes and say we will issue section 20 consultations if they want us to go ahead. Then all hell breaks loose with them saying how unfair it is that they have to pay that much money out for car parking etc...... They can't afford that amount of money and they want to leave it.
They moan at every bit of maintenance that has to be done to the block. We had a blocked drain recently that meant raw sewage was pouring into the road. They moaned how they would have to pay for it. They are moaning about having the gutters cleared and cleaned and how that is costing them service charges.
One has moaned that they have a "structural issue" in their flat with cracking on a wall. A surveyor has been out and it's cosmetic cracking. They are expecting that the money to fix the cracking to come out of the service charge from all the flats sigh.
I can understand why people sell off a freehold when you have to live on site and it not being a shared freehold. It makes it very draining.
We now have a robotic stance of "you need to contact the management company" and refuse to get drawn in to any conversation about the block and maintenance etc.... it is draining though living through it all.
Just a word of warning to anyone considering what we have done.
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Comments
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One example is they want the front garden completely hard surface so parking would be easier for all. 2 of the 3 leaseholders have been moaning about it for months. So we get 3 quotes for the work. It averaged at about 16k so £4k per flat. We write to them all with the quotes and say we will issue section 20 consultations if they want us to go ahead.
I know this isn't the purpose of your post, but...
It sounds like you're saying there was no hard-standing previously (i.e. when the lease was granted).
If so, you can't do a s20 for that - it's an improvement. You can't force leaseholders to pay for improvements, only for maintenance and repairs (unless you have very unusual leases).
If all the leaseholders want hard-standing, they can volunteer to give you £4k each for you to arrange it. But if any of them refuse to give you £4k, you cannot force them.0 -
I know this isn't the purpose of your post, but...
It sounds like you're saying there was no hard-standing previously (i.e. when the lease was granted).
If so, you can't do a s20 for that - it's an improvement. You can't force leaseholders to pay for improvements, only for maintenance and repairs (unless you have very unusual leases).
If all the leaseholders want hard-standing, they can volunteer to give you £4k each for you to arrange it. But if any of them refuse to give you £4k, you cannot force them.
Fair enough, but it was the leaseholders that wanted it done. The problem they appear to have is paying for anything.Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
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Doozergirl wrote: »Fair enough, but it was the leaseholders that wanted it done. The problem they appear to have is paying for anything.
... yes - although the OP is also complaining about the hassles of being a freeholder, whilst planning to do completely unnecessary admin work.
The OP could lighten their burden by just saying to each leaseholder "Here's a copy of a quote from Mr A Builder for £16k. Have a chat amongst yourselves, and if you're happy, transfer £4k each into my account and I'll tell them to get started."0 -
£4K is a lot of money for some people. The other leaseholders probably didn't realise it would be quite that much.
Having taken on this role, you are going to have this hassle for quite a while. Your best hope is to keep reminding the other leaseholders that you are trying to keep the costs down, but that you also have a duty to ensure that the work is done properly. I do agree that buying the freehold was a very good option for you, even though it has come with these problems.
I think this is a good post in that it warns others of the unintended consequences of one leaseholder buying the freehold. The relationships between the flat owners has become unbalanced, with one owner holding a lot of power. Anyone with the opportunity to do this should think about whether setting up a management company with every flat owning a share might be a safer option if the personal relationships are precious to them.The comments I post are my personal opinion. While I try to check everything is correct before posting, I can and do make mistakes, so always try to check official information sources before relying on my posts.0 -
All this Freehold / Leasehold stress
All properties should be commonhold0 -
I know this isn't the purpose of your post, but...
It sounds like you're saying there was no hard-standing previously (i.e. when the lease was granted).
If so, you can't do a s20 for that - it's an improvement. You can't force leaseholders to pay for improvements, only for maintenance and repairs (unless you have very unusual leases).
If all the leaseholders want hard-standing, they can volunteer to give you £4k each for you to arrange it. But if any of them refuse to give you £4k, you cannot force them.
No there is hard standing. We have an in and out drive. They all wanted 4 parking spaces face on facing the property. In the leases it states parking is first come first served (only 3 cars can fit on without having to ask someone to move).
We have no problem with how it is now. If the 3 spaces are full (very rarely) then we park on the road.
It is just stressful when neighbours are knocking on your door at all times of the day or night asking for these things but don't actually have the funds to pay for anything.0 -
£4K is a lot of money for some people. The other leaseholders probably didn't realise it would be quite that much.
Having taken on this role, you are going to have this hassle for quite a while. Your best hope is to keep reminding the other leaseholders that you are trying to keep the costs down, but that you also have a duty to ensure that the work is done properly. I do agree that buying the freehold was a very good option for you, even though it has come with these problems.
I think this is a good post in that it warns others of the unintended consequences of one leaseholder buying the freehold. The relationships between the flat owners has become unbalanced, with one owner holding a lot of power. Anyone with the opportunity to do this should think about whether setting up a management company with every flat owning a share might be a safer option if the personal relationships are precious to them.
We felt we had to buy the freehold to protect ourselves. We couldn't afford massive hikes in service charges.
I did just want to warn others that it can be very draining when we just want a quiet life. I don't care really about the neighbours other than to get on as neighbourly as possible. We all have to live close to each other so being polite is the easiest way. I'm sure if the freeholder didn't live on site none of the leaseholders would kick up the fuss as much as they do. It just feels as we are here they can ask us at any time they want.0 -
In my experience leaseholders never want to pay for repairs unless it benefits their own flat and even then they usually moan about the cost.
Self managed blocks where leaseholders have a share of freehold are even worse as they usually cannot reach a consensus so put off doing essential maintenance or do the most basic cheapest short term patch repairs.0 -
It is just stressful when neighbours are knocking on your door at all times of the day or night asking for these things but don't actually have the funds to pay for anything.
Hold an AGM with the leaseholders where the service charge is discussed and plan for the year - agree for the year what you all want to happen, if they come knocking out side of that time (unless its an emergency) stock reply - "Please add it to the list of things to discuss at the AGM"0 -
Another problem I see looming is what are you going to do when one of them wants to sell and wants to extend their sub-70 year lease?0
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