POPLA Complaint - extension granted

LittleMissParker

Hi all, newbie here

Please go easy on me - it’s taken two hours to find how to post a new thread after scouring the existing ones to (hopefully!) make sure I’m not duplicating.

I’m looking for advice following a pcn received for a local private car park back in mid Feb 2018.

Background:

Ticket issued of an evening, within minutes of me parking my car. I have always parked there previously understanding it to be f.o.c after 6pm.

I returned to a pcn issued on my windscreen - £100, reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days.

I called and spoke with the landowner, who was not really of any assistance - he advised he had many calls regarding the car park (which clearly indicates that there is an issue) and had to tell all callers the same - to follow the appeals process and that he could review it down the line if necessary...

So I followed the appeals process using a template from MSE (although I now understand it to not be one of the newer versions) and cited poor signage, that the charge was disproportionate and not commercially justifiable.

Not surprisingly PCN Admin Centre rejected my appeal on behalf of their client, Lodge Parking Ltd issued me with a POPLA code.

I lodged my appeal to POPLA 25/4 and tracked the progress online. Every time I logged in, it indicated that POPLA were awaiting the submission of evidence from the parking operator.

NTK letter received in the meantime, issued 1/5/18 from PCN Admin Centre on behalf of Lodge Parking Ltd.

I received an email from POPLA 31/5/18 to advise me that a decision had been made, and was viewable in the portal. I logged in to find a decision of ‘unsuccessful’ from assessor Richard Beaden - I will do my best to post the rejection but in a nutshell, cited that he deemed signage to be clear, that it was responsibility of the motorist to ensure they adhere to t&c if car park, and quoted the classic PE v Beavis.

I then (4/6) received a a letter from ZZPS on behalf of their client Lodge Parking Ltd stating the balance is now £170 and includes late payment and debt recovery fees?!?!

It then occurred to me whilst reading various threads and checking back on POPLA FAQs that I was never advised that the parking co had submit their evidence, giving me the opportunity to reply prior to POPLA making their decision.

I therefore submit a complaint to POPLA around procedural failings and have today received the following back:

Dear xxxxx xxxxxxxxx

Your complaint about POPLA

Thank you for your email dated 6 June 2018, which was passed to me by the POPLA team, as I am responsible for responding to complaints.

I note from your correspondence that you are unhappy with the decision reached by the assessor in your appeal against Lodge Parking Ltd, and you consider that there has been a procedural error.

I have reviewed the assessor’s decision and I consider that a procedural error has occurred, as you were not allowed the opportunity to comment on the operator’s evidence pack.

Please find attached to this email the operator’s evidence pack. POPLA will allow you 7 days from today to provide your comments. If we do not receive any comments by close of business on Monday 18 June 2018 we will assume you have none to make and will just respond to the comments within your complaint email.

Once I have received your comments, I will complete a full review of your case and respond to you within the next 10 working days. It is important to note that financial recompense will not be awarded if a procedural error is identified and my review may not change the outcome of the decision.

In closing, I thank you for bringing this matter to our attention and I apologise for any inconvenience caused.

Yours sincerely


Amy Smith
POPLA Complaints Team

I nite from a lot of posts that the advice is to ignore - in my case, as LPL Ltd were established in 2017 and are a newly formed company with minimal cases having made it to court which I do appreciate - my concern is that they have 6 years in which to progress this - whilst it may be newly formed now, there is presumably nothing to stop them gaining momentum down the line? I guess I’m really looking for guidance here and help so I can resolve this now and not have it hanging over my head.

Not sure whether this has any bearing but I was advised to contact the DVLA to check when my details were requested; and this is 25 days after the incident.

Furthermore, the NTK was received dated 1/5/18 although I never argued keeper liability etc at the time, have they broken POFA rules by applying for keeper details before 28 days (as they only had the details from my appeal prior to this) and in addition, the NTK is dated 71 days after the alleged incident. I feel I may have missed a trick in not appealing in these grounds but unfortunately found a lot of advice too late after I’d paniced and sent in the appeal.

Any advice and support you guys can give would be greatly appreciated as to how I resolve this.

Thanks in advance

KeithP

You must robustly respond to the PPC's evidence.

Go though it meticulously.

Note everything that is wrong with their evidence and also make note of any points in your appeal that they have not challenged. If they have not challenged any of your points, that means that they have accepted your point.

You cannot add new evidence at this time so unfortunately you cannot introduce the 'late NtK' argument.

You only have a few days to respond and your response must be 2000 characters or less.

If you do not respond, then the original PoPLA appeal refusal will stand.

Repeat... you must robustly challenge their evidence.

Umkomaas

Well done on some very thorough research and getting to the nub of all this.

Follow Keith's advice.

LittleMissParker

Hi Keith,

Thanks for your reply. I do appreciate it. I thought that may be the case RE NTK.
Is the response done online as I!!!8217;ve logged into the tracking area but cannot see anywhere to post any response? I thought I needed to reply to the email that the agent sent. I!!!8217;ve got everything printed off so intend to go through it multiple times before submitting. I received it today so have 7 days to go over everything, I just really want for this to go away.

LittleMissParker

Thank you - I just wish I!!!8217;d seen a lot of the info on this forum when first appealing! I could have saved myself the time and stress. But like a lot of people I sat it out, confused myself with too much info and then panicked.

KeithP

Oh, usually a response to the PPC's evidence is done online, but in your situation it may be different. If the email doesn't give good guidance on that, maybe a quick email to Popla is the way forward.

Castle

LittleMissParker wrote: »

NTK letter received in the meantime, issued 1/5/18 from PCN Admin Centre on behalf of Lodge Parking Ltd.

How much was the NTK for?

LittleMissParker

Sorry - I know I rambled on a fair bit:

In summary -
Windscreen PCN 16/2

Appeal sent to parking operator 13/3

Reply back from parking operator via email 27/3

Appeal sent to POPLA 25/4

The NTK dated 1/5/18 was for £100.00

POPLA decision dated 31/5/18

ZZPS letter also dated 31/5/18 asking for £100 + £70 admin fees

Complaint sent to POPLA 8/6/18

Reply from POPLA received today providing me with the evidence pack that they failed to provide me with prior to making their decision. 7 days granted to comment on evidence.

The_Deep

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.

Coupon-mad

I replied to you on pepipoo not long ago. I post there as SchoolRunMum.

Awful that you used the terrible appeal template provided in an MSE official article.

The dates you gave on pepipoo are different from those you gave us here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=120734

You said that Lodge got DVLA data 'on day 25' but now here your dates suggest they got the data 'on day 28'.

and this is 25 days after the incident

Not according to your dates now! You now say 16th Feb/16th March! 28 days.

I think that 28 days is still a day too soon, they can't get DVLA data until day 29. Send an email of complaint to the DVLA and BPA as advised on pepipoo already (I gave you the email address), and please answer the question about whether you blabbed about who parked? Did you fall into the trap MSE set you up for in the awful template, ''the reason I parked as I did was'' or any such terrible wording? Or did you appeal online and choose 'driver' because the clueless MSE article doesn't tell you not to?

This is important to know, to plan what you can say in your POPLA comments.

LittleMissParker

Hi,

Thanks for your reply - just saw both of your posts.

Sorry, that!!!8217;s just my furious fat fingers.
DVLA letter states !!!8216;according to our requests a request was made manual signed is 12/3/18 for the keeper details!!!8217;
That being said, I!!!8217;ve noticed that the actual form that they!!!8217;ve provided is dated 19/3/18, so I!!!8217;m slightly confused now as to whether it!!!8217;s an error on the DVLA part.

It was the terrible template that I used. I didn!!!8217;t specifically say that I was the driver although ultimately alluded to it. Letter sent during first appeal to parking op:
Dear Sir or Madam,

Parking Charge Notice No: xxx
Location: High Green Car Park, Cannock
Vehicle registration number: Xxxxx

You issued me with a parking ticket on 16/02/2018 which I believe was unfairly issued. I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reasons:


!!!8226; There was insufficient signage
The car park in question has no clear signage to explain that the relevant parking restrictions have changed (especially whilst parking when it is dark!). This means no contract can be formed with the landowner and all tickets are issued illegally. I have always parked here of an evening in the past without issue, as the car park was free after 6pm. Please see attached evidence of other customers who have also received parking fines !!!8211; this clearly illustrates that the signage is insufficient enough to indicate that the parking charges have changed, and that there is now a charge applicable after 6pm given that other members of the public complain of the same issue.
!!!8226; The charge is disproportionate and not commercially justifiable
Furthermore, the amount you have charged is not based upon any commercially justifiable loss to your company or the landowner.

In my case, the £100.00 charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner of £1.00 which I later established is the cost to park between 18.00 and 07.59. I therefore feel the charge you have asked for is excessive and unjustifiable.

If you choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any further correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you answer the specific points raised in my letter.

Yours faithfully,