Are building "professionals" getting less professional?

PhilE

robatwork wrote: »

This, and this, precisely.

I didn't mention my own beliefs as to why this is happening, but I see what's happening in our schools, and it's obvious we are producing people barely able to function on their own, let alone run an efficient business. Why school don't teach time management and basic finance I have no idea, although most of the teachers probably aren't capable.

I am not basing my comments on speculation but observation.

I'd fully agree with the dumbing down of UK society as a contribution to the problem.

That and teaching children respect. Lived in South London for a while, when the schools close for the day you have to be careful that the 14 year olds don't assault you. Why? Because they know that they can be violent to an adult and get away with it. Was a time when any such teenager would get repeated clips round the ear by the whole neighborhood, teachers and a stern word from the police. Now you'd potentially be looking at a jail sentence for rebuking a violent child.

The modern child grows up with a sense of entitlement and lack of discipline that spills over into adult life. Such a person is less likely to have respect for others, and the self discipline necessary to effectively conduct a business.

Doozergirl

Speaking of a sense of entitlement and a lack of respect for others...

EachPenny

robatwork wrote: »

OK a deliberately provocative title.

I think part of the problem has been a drift in the meaning of the word 'professional'. There was a time where it conveyed an expectation of honesty, trust, and high standards.

Now it just conveys the person's expectation of getting paid, regardless of the quality of job they have done.

Jackmydad

robatwork wrote: »

This, and this, precisely.

I didn't mention my own beliefs as to why this is happening, but I see what's happening in our schools, and it's obvious we are producing people barely able to function on their own, let alone run an efficient business. Why school don't teach time management and basic finance I have no idea, although most of the teachers probably aren't capable.

I am not basing my comments on speculation but observation.

I wonder why they don't teach a lot of "everyday" practical things in schools.
Academic subjects are all well and good, but you're more likely to need to keep accounts, and manage your time, than know what the main exports of Canada are.

ComicGeek

Most people would go and work for someone after leaving school to get experience, and wouldn’t just set up by themselves without any. And then perhaps go and work for themselves later on. At the start, time management and accounts are controlled by others.

After 10-20 years after leaving school, how much do you remember of your lessons?

The problem I see is that the public don’t have a clue what they are asking for, and can’t distinguish between cowboys and reputable outfits. The public won’t pay me the £500 I charge for a project with excellent credentials and references (which professional developers know is a good price and pay it every day), but are happy to chance it and pay £200 cash to someone off the internet with just a mobile number who then screws it up and costs them much more to put it right...

Jonah01

This post is so true.

We are currently looking for a builder for an extension.

Builders can build but so far my experience is that they have no knowledge of customer service i.e returning calls, providing a quote.

That's not to say they don't exist so I don't want any builders to get upset reading this.

It has been painful so far to the point I think I would rather move than take the risk.

System

Looking at it another way is that the expectations of customers has changed in the last few years, people expect tradesmen to be available on the phone all the time to discuss jobs, however I'm sure the same people would also be complaining if a tradesman came to do a job and spent all his time on the phone. It used to be that you called a landline and left a message through the day then got a call back in a few days time, nowadays if someone doesn't get back to you in a few hours then it's bad customer service.
(I'm not a tradesman before anyone thinks that)
There's some great trades I work with regularly but they are not always easy to get on the phone even tho most I'm contacting is on behalf of a client so they know there's usually a reasonable job on offer!

rach_k

I've found the opposite. The tradesmen we've used (quite a lot in the last couple of years) have all turned up on time, been polite and helpful, done the job well, cleared up and sent proper invoices. They respond quickly when you call (but then I guess if you're a grumbler, if your plumber is taking calls while on a job in your home, does that make them unprofessional?) and will always come out quickly in an emergency. We are not paying over the odds for this, in fact what we've paid has always been competitive. People doing work we can't see (e.g. on the roof) have taken photos before and after to explain things and people like electricians have spent time answering my stupid questions and explaining things.

We've always been polite and friendly to them and treated them as professionals rather than dumbed down entitled thugs barely able to function. Maybe that's why we've been so 'lucky'.

pollypenny

We have been lucky, then. All our tradesmen have been through personal recommendations. Now they tend to be ex-pupils and/or rugby players.

The only problem we had was 10 years with the electrician contracted by our kitchen designer. He wanted to replace the box, which was less than six months old.

Worse, I was in the garage, painting the chairs, when I heard said sparks asking the tiler how things are going for him, before boasting that he 'makes work'.

We had considered that he had done something unnecessarily, so I grassed him up and the kitchen firm dropped him.

robatwork

rach_k wrote: »

We've always been polite and friendly to them and treated them as professionals rather than dumbed down entitled thugs barely able to function. Maybe that's why we've been so 'lucky'.

You have indeed been lucky.

I have been unerringly polite to everyone I have contacted, and tend to leave messages as I fully appreciate they are likely to be busy during the day, and if they were working in my house I wouldn't appreciate them discussing other jobs on the phone. And when they're here they get tea by the litre, biscuits, cake and bacon sandwiches.

What's clearly rude and unacceptable is when someone doesn't respond at all to a message, or makes an arrangement to meet or respond on a deadline and neither makes the meeting nor responds at all.

I would say that these days there's even less reason to be so uncommunicative - they don't have to wait to listen to an answerphone message but they, or their colleague/secretary can access voicemail, facebook, whatsapp and diary remotely, and takes literally seconds to write a reply.

The plumber I've had for years now is still excellent, probably in his 40s and very trustworthy. I don't like sweeping generalisations but it does seem to be the younger tradesmen who aren't as organised.