Health & Wellbeing POA

northwest1965

Myself and my sister have POA (finance) for Mum & Dad.

Mum has dementia and her carer has asked if we have a health POA. We don't.

I presume as Mum has dementia, that we would not be able to obtain one now?

If she needed to go into a care home and she said no, presume we couldn't make her?

NeilCr

This may help

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/looking-after-people/managing-affairs-for-someone-else/#h-who-can-make-decisions-when-someone-loses-mental-capacity-and-there-s-no-power-of-attorney-

nicter

If it got to the point that it was deemed necessary for your mum to go into care but she refused a "Best interest meeting" can be held. This involves social worker, gp and any other involved professionals plus family to decide what is best for mum

Larac

northwest1965 wrote: »

Myself and my sister have POA (finance) for Mum & Dad.

Mum has dementia and her carer has asked if we have a health POA. We don't.

I presume as Mum has dementia, that we would not be able to obtain one now?

If she needed to go into a care home and she said no, presume we couldn't make her?

Not here to criticise - but wondering why POA was not taken out for finance and health at the same time - they tend to go in tandem? I remember sitting in a solicitors office when my Mum was asked the dreaded DNR question. When we had to act (she had dementia) - I was relieved this had been covered. Best to cover this off many years before hand IMHO.

northwest1965

Larac wrote: »

Not here to criticise - but wondering why POA was not taken out for finance and health at the same time - they tend to go in tandem? I remember sitting in a solicitors office when my Mum was asked the dreaded DNR question. When we had to act (she had dementia) - I was relieved this had been covered. Best to cover this off many years before hand IMHO.

At the time of POA, neither wanted us to have health. Different generation, I guess.

troubleinparadise

Larac wrote: »

Not here to criticise - but wondering why POA was not taken out for finance and health at the same time - they tend to go in tandem? I remember sitting in a solicitors office when my Mum was asked the dreaded DNR question. When we had to act (she had dementia) - I was relieved this had been covered. Best to cover this off many years before hand IMHO.

LPAs in their current form are relatively new, and replaced the old EPA, which only covered property and finance affairs. Thus initially people only took out the P & F LPA; the Health and Welfare LPA has only become more important recently, especially since the tightening up of Data Protection and rights of the individual etc, and the rise of dementia necessitating the need to make such decisions on behalf of a person who has lost capacity.

Plus the ease now of being able to self-complete via an online form at a reduced rate; again, it was previously at times felt more necessary to go through a solicitor at fairly high expense per form.

There are people who don’t have lots of money or complex affairs who don’t think they would need them, or who can’t easily afford them.

So these new POAs are a quickly evolving tool, which by the need to cover more situations are changing and becoming more complex. I dealt with my mother’s affairs 7 years ago, and at that time Healthcare Professionals barely know what the H & W LPA was about - now a GP is unlikely to speak to a carer without one being in place.

There are still old-style EPAs out there being used, but their limitations will become all too relevant if greater help is needed for an individual. And there are some lucky people out there who haven’t even heard of LPAs as their lives have been untouched by the need for them, or handling someone else’s affairs.

I see OP has responded - and makes a valid point - it is still the choice of the individual. My mother actually hated the whole idea, so hers were done via a solicitor to give her confidence it was all above board. And thus the two were completed, but reluctantly.

Rambosmum

It depends whether your mum has lost capacity to make the decision to give you LPA. Having dementia doesn't necessarily preclude you from giving LPA or mean you have lost capacity.

arielsmelody

If you and your sister agree on what's best for your mum, it shouldn't really be a problem that there's no health LPA, but as the poster above has said, just because your mum has dementia doesn't automatically mean that she has lost capacity to make an LPA.

Whether you could insist that your mum goes into a care home if she says no is a very grey area and having an LPA wouldn't give you the right to force her.

Have a look at the Turning Point forum on the Alzheimer's Society website - there are lots of posters there who have experience of caring for someone with dementia.

Rambosmum

Also, if your mum doesn't want to go in to a care home, no one can make her. A process needs to be followed (whether you have LPA or not), a capacity assessment will need to be done and if she has capacity, it ends there and if she doesn't then the person with LPA needs to make a decision in her best interest or if there is no LPA then a 'Best Interest Decision meeting' will need to be held. Best interest decisions and what is for the best aren't necessarily the same thing and you must consider your mum's previous wishes and feelings, the risk of not doing the action, the risk of doing the action and whether or not it is the least restrictive option. It isn't simply a case of "she'll be safer in a home". Some people prefer to leave these decisions to professionals (such as social workers). It can be hard being the one who decides to place someone in a home and you need to be certain you are doing it in THEIR best interest, not what you think will be best all round.