DWP - Paper Copy Of Their Guidelines

HMO976

Most people aren't going to understand this. Anyways. I am a little bit anal.

I'm on benefits. JSA and HB. I applied for a 'Budgeting loan'. It was refused because I'm on contributions based JSA not income. Fair enough. I took a quick look at the difference between contributions and income based JSA. More or less everywhere tells you it is based on the last two tax years. But, that is not strictly true. There are other conditions.

I rang the DWP and asked a simple question, "What are the other conditions, other than tax years. That define whether you are on contribution or income based JSA?". Simple question I thought. Wrong. I spent 90 minutes trying to get an answer to the question. I didn;t get one. Passed to managers, blah, blah. OK. The DWP must follow a written code of practice/legislation. So, where can I get a copy and what is it called. I got the same non reply.

I sort of forgot about it until yesterday. I saw on the CAB website that one of the conditions of contribution based JSA is you can't have claimed it within two years. Which I have. So, again I rang the DWP and said that I thought I should be on income not contributions based JSA. Straight away I was told somebody would ring me back. That person (who was obviously senior) did today. Long story short. I couldn't get an answer and I was given the run around, again. Plus I was told if I'm on contributions JSA I will stay on it. It's limited to 182 days!

The DWP are hiding something. I don't know what. But I don't like being told I'm stupid, wrong and to go away when I ask a simple reasonable question.

My gut is telling me they are not following a point of law which they should be. What it is and what it means I don't know. But I'm going to find it.

Long story, short. Where can I find a copy of the legislation the DWP follow?

As I said. A lot of people aren't going to understand this. As a side note please be aware that being on income based JSA/ESA allows you access which you would otherwise be financially restricted from. Under UC and 'new JSA' you don't have the same access. I honestly don't care. But I'm not going to be told no, I'm not entitled. When I am.

pmlindyloo

Here are the decision maker's guides:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/decision-makers-guide-vols-4-5-6-and-7-jobseekers-allowance-and-income-support-staff-guide

You can look at Vol 4 ch 20 - JSA conditions of entitlement and
Ch 21 Special conditions for JSA (cont)

I am not exactly sure whether this will help.

Contribution based ESA always takes preference to income based ESA as it comes from a different pot of money.

So it is possible to be (in theory) entitled to income based JSA but be paid contribution based JSA instead.

For example. Single person, no savings, no disabilities, having worked full time during 2015/16 and 2016/17 would only receive contribution based JSA. Someone who hadn't worked and didn't therefore meet the conditions for contribution based JSA in the same circumstances
would be awarded income based JSA.

This is one of the 'quirks' of the benefit system.

Contribution based JSA means that savings and a partner's income is not taken into account so that is one of the plus points of contribution based JSA.

I am not sure whether this helps!

Perhaps you could give us all your circumstances - work history included - and we could check.

PS. And, by the way, at the end of the 182 days you would be reassessed for income based JSA if you met the conditions.

HMO976

Thank you.

Contribution based takes priority for one reason and one reason only. A lot of things are free if you are on benefits. INCOME based benefits.

I'm not being lied too. But the questions I am asking are not being answered. Why? I'm not being told for a reason. I'm guessing most people won't be effected and the reasons aren't ground breaking. But if say 1,5,10% of people on JSA are effected by it. What does that cost the government?

I understand I sound like a nut job. But my questions aren't being answered. Why? There can only be one answer. They don't want me to know the answer.

From my understanding of the conversations I've had you will only be transferred to income based after 182 days IF you ask.

I'm guessing that free access (if you are unemployed) to dental care, eye tests, etc are going to be on the condition that you are on income based benefits. As far as I'm aware you can't get that on UC and 'new JSA'. As you will know from answering an earlier post of mine on another thread I'm going to take my landlord to court. That is free if I'm on income based benefits.

poppy12345

HMO976 wrote: »

Thank you.

Contribution based takes priority for one reason and one reason only. A lot of things are free if you are on benefits. INCOME based benefits.

I'm not being lied too. But the questions I am asking are not being answered. Why? I'm not being told for a reason. I'm guessing most people won't be effected and the reasons aren't ground breaking. But if say 1,5,10% of people on JSA are effected by it. What does that cost the government?

I understand I sound like a nut job. But my questions aren't being answered. Why? There can only be one answer. They don't want me to know the answer.

From my understanding of the conversations I've had you will only be transferred to income based after 182 days IF you ask.

I'm guessing that free access (if you are unemployed) to dental care, eye tests, etc are going to be on the condition that you are on income based benefits. As far as I'm aware you can't get that on UC and 'new JSA'. As you will know from answering an earlier post of mine on another thread I'm going to take my landlord to court. That is free if I'm on income based benefits.

As you haven't given us any of your circumstances as previously asked in post #2 how do you expect anyone here to answer any of your questions?

Ineededaname

I understand I sound like a nut job. But my questions aren't being answered. Why? There can only be one answer. They don't want me to know the answer

The amount of guidelines and legislation that DWP rules are based on are immense and cover multiple benefits. The people you are speaking to, more than likely, simply do not know the answer to what is a very unusual question.

Contribution based benefits are normally the preferred choice as they ignore savings/capital/partners income and continue to pay class 1 NI contributions.

Ultimatley the conditions of entitlement should be in legislation and availalbe to the public. You could try to search the relevant acts and find the information. I had a quick look but was not able to do so, I think the JSA legislation is now so split with amendments etc it's very difficult. I did however find this site which seems very informative, and covers all the entitlement conditions. It also mentions relevant legislation near the bottom.

www. lawcentreni.org /EoR/benefits-and-tax-credits/jobseekers-allowance.html

Have to take the gaps out sorry as I cannot post links

Two key points from here:
'If a person does not qualify for JSA(C), or does but needs additional benefit (for partner and/or housing costs) s/he may qualify for JSA(IB).'
'JSA(IB) is paid to a person who is required to sign on as available for work and can be paid as a top-up to JSA(C) and/or when JSA(C) is ended.'

...i.e no entitlement to (IB) until (C) has ended?

'JSA(C) is paid for a maximum of 26 weeks in any benefit year.'
'A person cannot re-qualify for JSA(C) based on contributions paid in the same two contribution years. S/he must wait until the beginning of a new benefit year before s/he can claim again.'
'Any breaks of less than twelve weeks are linked together.'

...i.e Previously claiming (C) in the last two years would not mean you were now not eligible. If you previously claimed in the last tax year you could now be eligible again. If you previously claimed in this tax year then it would be a break of less than twelve weeks and it is also impossible you claimed for the full 26 weeks - so you could be eligible and likely are as that is what they have put you on.

[Deleted User]

HMO976 wrote: »

Thank you.

Contribution based takes priority for one reason and one reason only. A lot of things are free if you are on benefits. INCOME based benefits.

I'm not being lied too. But the questions I am asking are not being answered. Why? I'm not being told for a reason. I'm guessing most people won't be effected and the reasons aren't ground breaking. But if say 1,5,10% of people on JSA are effected by it. What does that cost the government?

I understand I sound like a nut job. But my questions aren't being answered. Why? There can only be one answer. They don't want me to know the answer.

From my understanding of the conversations I've had you will only be transferred to income based after 182 days IF you ask.

I'm guessing that free access (if you are unemployed) to dental care, eye tests, etc are going to be on the condition that you are on income based benefits. As far as I'm aware you can't get that on UC and 'new JSA'. As you will know from answering an earlier post of mine on another thread I'm going to take my landlord to court. That is free if I'm on income based benefits.

You will be transferred after 182 days because you can only get C.B for 6 months, after that its income based if you qualify, its no great mystery.

jfdi

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/73407727#Comment_73407727

Post 4 has got a pretty basic explanation. It!!!8217;s about ESA but the JSA rules are basically the same.
Iirc if you use up your entitlement you have to work again to requalify (can!!!8217;t recall how much), but if you stop claiming and haven!!!8217;t used up your entitlement then the count of days due may start again if the gap is over 13 weeks.
There!!!8217;s special rules for FE leavers too, but I!!!8217;ve forgotten them!

HMO976

Thank you all for your help. Ineededana your information was particularly helpful.

I got a call back yesterday and they had made a mistake. I should have been on Income based (IB) not contributions (C). I was on ESA and switched to JSA. I should have been put on IB at that point not C because I had used up my entitlement. In my position that has made a difference. I was refused a budgeting loan because I was put on C not IB (on double checking I'm still not eligible because I haven't been on IB benefits for 6 months). It also meant that I would have had to pay court fees for taking my landlord to small claims court. It is free if you are on IB JSA. It would have been a real struggle to get the money for the fee.

What is very clear is the DWP are in my opinion very underhanded. If something is advantageous to your position they don't tell you about it. You have to specifically ask for it. For example, they won't tell you about crisis loans etc unless you specifically ask for it by name. I'm sure if I had £20k sat in the bank I wouldn't have had to ask to be switched to IB benefits.

poppy12345

Crisis loans no longer exist. See link for social fund payments available, for those that qualify.

https://www.advicenow.org.uk/tags/social-fund-payments

p00hsticks

HMO976 wrote: »

What is very clear is the DWP are in my opinion very underhanded. If something is advantageous to your position they don't tell you about it.

The majority of DWP employees are relatively low paid and focussed on a single type of benefit - particularly the call centre staff, who tend to have to follow scripts and often simply don't know what may be advantageous to your particular position.

pmduk

Ineededaname's link in clickable format:
http://www.lawcentreni.org/EoR/benefits-and-tax-credits/jobseekers-allowance.html