Renovation of a 3 bedroom Victorian House in London

westernpromise

Quite. Spend £20k and the first job done will be falling apart before the last one is done.

My £100k estimate doesn't include the roof. What you find in London is that tradesmen don't need to know what the job is to price it, they only need to know where the job is. If you're in NW3 you can add 50 to 100% to all the below numbers; if you're in Walthamstow you could probably knock off 25%.

- reroof - no idea
- damp proof (the damp survey stated 3 800+VAT, is that possible?) - sounds cheap, call it £5k
- completely replumb the house - £4k
- rewire the house - £4k
- replace 3 windows - £9k
- refit bathroom and kitchen - £15k and £25k*
- replaster assume - £3k per room so £15k
- renovate the damaged victorian flooring - assume at least £3k per room, so ~£15k
- and ideally renovate two fireplaces which have been taken out - £6k
- and another plus would be to knock down the ceiling of the bathroom to make it higher, as a secondary roof is above it. - £2k on top of above

- which comes to £100k.

How are the doors? The front door? The exterior lights? The garden and the paving? Solid wood doors are a thousand each including fitting and furniture. You can get crummy ones from Homebase for £80 but there'll be little actual wood in them and you could find the handles tear out of the pulp and glue they are made of once they warp and don't shut properly. You've probably got 10 doors so that's a good £2k to £3k for a basic quality.

What's the state of the boiler and the radiators? How's the window furniture?

If you don't believe me, get one job fully costed and see how far off I am. With a bathroom, for example, it's not just the suite. It's the floor, the plaster, the lighting, the plumbing, the painting, the tiling, towel rails, the door, the windows and the window furniture. Cheap loos aren't worth it, a few weeks of scrubbing with chemicals and the glaze comes off leaving permanent grey marks.

* appliances £6k, worktops £5k, floor and tiles £5k, replastering, splashbacks, sinks, taps, plus whatever the actual kitchen + fitting costs - easily gets you to £25k

rach_k

We spent £20K just on the kitchen of our S London Victorian 3 bed terrace - plumbing, new electrics for that room only, plastering, new window and doors... and the kitchen was from Ikea so not expensive. There is no way you can do all you want to do for £20K.

[Deleted User]

I agree with the higher estimates. I would say about £50-£60 grand, but I do not know London pricing so add more for this.


We had our house re-roofed 2 years ago for £6.5 grand and that was with easy access (detached bungalow with a large garden) and only low scaffolding needed. I reckon at least £10K for the roof alone.

Rambosmum

Doozergirl wrote: »

I'm horrified at the comment that it costs less if you're selling it on! £20k does not cover a comprehensive renovation of a 3 bedroomed house to even a basic specification.

Homes Under the Hammer has really infiltrated the British blood. If you take on something like that, you take some pride and you do it properly. You don't bodge it for the next owner to deal with.

I very much agree. Personally I wouldn't do that, BUT I also wouldn't put in my dream kitchen at 30k if I was going to sell it on, I'd put in a good, but not amazing one for 4k. I wouldn't put all the plugs in I'd want, and wouldn't make them USB. I wouldn't run LAN cabling to every room, just to some. I'd use b&q paint rather than farrow and ball, I'd use laminate, not hardwood flooring. So it does cost less if you are doing it to sell on. Not doing it badly, not just doing it to the top spec I might do if I was planning to live in it - my taste isn't everyone's and a top spec but not to my there taste house will put people off.

Rambosmum

Spider_In_The_Bath wrote: »

I agree with the higher estimates. I would say about £50-£60 grand, but I do not know London pricing so add more for this.


We had our house re-roofed 2 years ago for £6.5 grand and that was with easy access (detached bungalow with a large garden) and only low scaffolding needed. I reckon at least £10K for the roof alone.

We had ours re-roofed, new felt, rafters and insulation for £3k, but I suspect it depends where you are and if you shop around.

Doozergirl

Rambosmum wrote: »

I very much agree. Personally I wouldn't do that, BUT I also wouldn't put in my dream kitchen at 30k if I was going to sell it on, I'd put in a good, but not amazing one for 4k. I wouldn't put all the plugs in I'd want, and wouldn't make them USB. I wouldn't run LAN cabling to every room, just to some. I'd use b&q paint rather than farrow and ball, I'd use laminate, not hardwood flooring. So it does cost less if you are doing it to sell on. Not doing it badly, not just doing it to the top spec I might do if I was planning to live in it - my taste isn't everyone's and a top spec but not to my there taste house will put people off.

My point is that £20k does not take you anywhere near far enough. Talking of kitchens, paint and cabling doesn't fix the important structural things which should not be and are difficult to budget down. They cost what they cost, hence "developers" (and I use that word very loosely) don't do them at all. £20k involves all the things you've suggested and actually very little else of the truly important structural things that people who want finished houses are actually relying on.

Paint is a ridiculously tiny proportion of budget, even F&B.

In London, I'd also argue that houses do need a certain spec to justify a price tag. A 'good' kitchen in London is not £4k. In fact, if £4k is 'good' in most places I wonder what cheap and pretty poor quality costs.

If one wants to buy a house to sell on and can't afford to do it properly and make money, people should find something else to invest in.

Rambosmum

We have just renovated a 3 bed semi (which we were planning on living in), and are currently doing our Victorian end terrace. These are the
actual prices we paid.
- reroof - £2900
- damp proof (the damp survey stated 3 800+VAT, is that possible?) £3200 + vat + replastering
- completely replumb the house - only needed some plubing, about £400 worth, did some of it ourself, under the supervision of plumber father in law. The new radiators cost £600 (for 3).
- just bought 3 new radiators for the Victorian house at a cost of £890.
- rewire the house - £3.5k - This was for a large 4 bed Victorian house, USB sockets, double LAN ports to all room and TV aerials to all rooms.
- replace 3 windows - Wooden sash or UPV? Wooden sash much more pricey.
- refit bathroom and kitchen - we spent 3.5k on units in the 3 bed, we fitted it ourselves. 2k for sink & appliances. plus tiles (did the tiling myself), blind, paint and wallpaper and pictures ~ £300
- replaster assume - Back to brick or float & reskim? We've had one room taken back to brick at a cost of £860 and one floated and skimmed inc ceiling & Victorian Cornicing £220 (rooms are 4m x 4.5m)
- renovate the damaged victorian flooring - tile? or wood? Wood obviously much cheaper. We bought replacement pine floor boards and hired a sander cost around £280 for 2 rooms & hall. We need to stain, oil and varnish still, which will cost about £150 we did this ourselves though.
- and ideally renovate two fireplaces which have been taken out - just agreed on £3038 for two new liners, a wood burning stove and an open fire including parts and install.
- and another plus would be to knock down the ceiling of the bathroom to make it higher, as a secondary roof is above it. - was £500 when we did this in the small bathroom (2mx2m) this was to remove the suspended ceiling, board and skim.


On top of this was the hire of a couple of skips (£180 each) and then paint, curtains, soft furnishings etc. We've also repointed the front (£480) and repointed and repaired a small areas at the back (£160)


The 3 bed semi cost £12k, but we didn't replace the bathroom (that would have been £3k as it was small, so nothing fancy could fit in!)


The Victorian we are still working on and are at £8300 but it's a labour of love and we expect it to top £100k - the house will be worth much much more once finished though.


We are however North West, which does make it cheaper. And in terms of cheap but good kitchens - I recommend DIYkitchens.com

westernpromise

If you're in the north west the comparison is meaningless.

If you're in Highgate / Hampstead pretty well all jobs of any description start at £5k.

When we had a shed put in we asked the supplier what the cement plinth should cost and they thought around £600 tops. We found no quote lower than £2,000.

MaireMarieMarie

Rambosmum wrote: »

You need to make the house waterproof - so the dampproof, repointing, reroofing and windows need doing first. If you don't waterproof the house then anything you do do may get damaged by damp.

Are you renovating to sell on or to live in? To sell, you could do it for 20k or less, to live in, it'll be more.

If it were me, it'd be the above work first, then electrics and plumbing, then plaster, then floors. Then the cosmetic stuff, bathrooms, kitchens etc.

Also, when rewiring, think about having LAN (internet) cables and TV aerials put in to each room.

Thank you Rambosmum for telling me in which order things should be done. I am renovating to live in myself, so I want to invest in a nice renovation (if the budget allows for it).

MaireMarieMarie

westernpromise wrote: »

Quite. Spend £20k and the first job done will be falling apart before the last one is done.

My £100k estimate doesn't include the roof. What you find in London is that tradesmen don't need to know what the job is to price it, they only need to know where the job is. If you're in NW3 you can add 50 to 100% to all the below numbers; if you're in Walthamstow you could probably knock off 25%.

- reroof - no idea
- damp proof (the damp survey stated 3 800+VAT, is that possible?) - sounds cheap, call it £5k
- completely replumb the house - £4k
- rewire the house - £4k
- replace 3 windows - £9k
- refit bathroom and kitchen - £15k and £25k*
- replaster assume - £3k per room so £15k
- renovate the damaged victorian flooring - assume at least £3k per room, so ~£15k
- and ideally renovate two fireplaces which have been taken out - £6k
- and another plus would be to knock down the ceiling of the bathroom to make it higher, as a secondary roof is above it. - £2k on top of above

- which comes to £100k.

How are the doors? The front door? The exterior lights? The garden and the paving? Solid wood doors are a thousand each including fitting and furniture. You can get crummy ones from Homebase for £80 but there'll be little actual wood in them and you could find the handles tear out of the pulp and glue they are made of once they warp and don't shut properly. You've probably got 10 doors so that's a good £2k to £3k for a basic quality.

What's the state of the boiler and the radiators? How's the window furniture?

If you don't believe me, get one job fully costed and see how far off I am. With a bathroom, for example, it's not just the suite. It's the floor, the plaster, the lighting, the plumbing, the painting, the tiling, towel rails, the door, the windows and the window furniture. Cheap loos aren't worth it, a few weeks of scrubbing with chemicals and the glaze comes off leaving permanent grey marks.

* appliances £6k, worktops £5k, floor and tiles £5k, replastering, splashbacks, sinks, taps, plus whatever the actual kitchen + fitting costs - easily gets you to £25k

100k is definitely not the answer I wanted to hear , but your answer has given me a good idea of what I should be expecting. If the Victorian flooring and the fireplaces are going to be that expensive, they'll need to be done way later. There are only 3 windows that need replacing, the boiler can still survive for another couple of years and the radiators are fine as well. The garden and paving need updating, but we can do that later.

For now I just want to know, how much we are going to spend on renovating before we actually can move in and if we have enough budget for the major upfront costs...