Suddenly told that I owe my employer £12,000 when leaving my job

System

It's a lot of holiday if it's 12k...imagine take home is around £2000 a month (35k a year - pretty good salary). So, holidays cost the company say £500 ish a week, so that's 24 weeks of extra holiday during the time OP was there? That's half a year extra!!! When on earth do they say you did that and no one noticed!


But...some of it is bonus. So say half is...6k bonus is A LOT! If I had paid my employee that this year and then they handed in notice straight after I'd be a little peeved. Although, sounds from the OP's post that this bonus was accured over years (small bonus payments). Surely an employee can't take previous bonus off you?


I'd ask for a breakdown. Chances are, they haven't got a leg to stand on.

lytton

Never ever ever ever ever ever rely on your employer to track and manage your annual leave by themselves, ever. It may be too late on this occasion but even working in large and (supposedly) efficient employers such as the nhs you’ll find manager’s and HR teams making simple mistakes. Sometimes they are honest mistakes, sometimes they are down to complete incompetence or lack of resources. Irrespective of the causes, you should always make sure you are clear as to your AL entitlements and keep a private record of your AL. A notepad/word document will do, it doesn’t have to be posh. Ideally an AL card at work will do the trick, one that requires the dates and signatures of both you and your manager so that everyone is in agreement. As others have said, request a complete breakdown of money overpaid and on which dates etc. Owing annual leave is not uncommon but this usually only equates to a few days give or take, so we’re usually talking a few hundred pounds at most. £12k is a shocking figure and it certainly sounds like your employer has made some bizarre errors. After you have as much in writing as possible, contact ACAS, citizen’s advice or a workplace union rep if you have one. The payment plan is a sensible way forward but only once you are sure your employer has demonstrated without doubt that the outstanding figure is correct. A deferment period could help, if you can push for it. I’d also consider a lengthy complaints or appeals process if it transpires that the bulk of the miscalculation lies squarely on the shoulders of your employer. This must represent many years of screw ups surely? Anything you can do to get that figure down (legitimately) is surely worth a punt. I’m used to owing maybe 4 days of annual leave when I leave mid year, which I can simply work back unpaid or dock from my final pay packet. £12k suggests a complete breakdown in comms and procedure, probably between several teams and of course yourself, to an extent. Try not to take it personally, but it’s a shocking figure that’s all. Good luck mate.

TBagpuss

As others have said, you can, and should, ask your employer to let you have a break down of how the figures have been worked out.

You can then check agaisnt your own records and your contract whether they are accurate.

If they aren't, go back to your employer setting not what you consider the correct figures are, and proposing a payment schedule.

If they are correct, go back to them proposing a repayment schedule.

For future reference, it is always sensible to keep track of your own holiday entitlement and usage. That way, you can avoid over-booking, and ensure that you catch any mistakes which may be made at an early stage.

HRs job is to track it for the emeployer

Brynsam

Noddy1 wrote: »

Am not sure, I will need to ask for the breakdown. Am meeting them in the next couple of weeks, they only just told me. I'm entitled to 25 days per year but they carry over, so some years I take more and others less

Also I'm really keen to understand more about what I should expect back from my employer in terms of pension, NI, etc (if anything)?

Let them do the legwork! They made the error and it's a pretty substantial one. As a minimum, you should expect them to set out in writing how they reached the amount they claim is due, breaking this down in detail so that you can (where possible) verify against your own records.

Helpful info (albeit aimed at employers) at http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=5313. Worth giving the ACAS helpline a call to clarify what to expect.

Smodlet

As for the NI/tax part of the question, if it has not already been addressed sufficiently for you, OP, if they have overpaid you £12k, is that gross or net? If gross then they have also overcharged you for whatever NI and income tax you pay on £12k, yes?

You really do need to take ownership of this situation and make your employer prove exactly how they arrived at this figure they say you now owe.

Dox

Smodlet wrote: »

You really do need to take ownership of this situation and make your employer prove exactly how they arrived at this figure they say you now owe.

Isn't that exactly what OP is trying to do, with some help from others on this forum - although there seems to be more debate about keeping holiday records and other noise than actually addressing the issue.

FBaby

How much bonus did you get? Surely you do know that? Then the extra holidays is the difference and you might be able to work it out on the basis of your daily pay.

Smodlet

Dox wrote: »

Isn't that exactly what OP is trying to do, with some help from others on this forum - although there seems to be more debate about keeping holiday records and other noise than actually addressing the issue.

I was helping, not creating noise. I addressed the issue.

Malthusian

andydownes123 wrote: »

If I had paid my employee that this year and then they handed in notice straight after I'd be a little peeved.

You shouldn't. Bonuses are for work already done, and done well. Handing in their notice doesn't change history and turn good work they've previously done into bad. If the bonus is supposed to be golden handcuffs or a "loyalty bonus" it needs to be agreed in the contract as such.

You might well have been happier if they had handed their notice in the day before and given you the chance to withhold their bonus and say "it's discretionary", despite the fact that it made absolutely no difference to how well they'd done their job until that point. But they would be very daft for allowing you that fit of pique.

ReadingTim

Dox wrote: »

Isn't that exactly what OP is trying to do, with some help from others on this forum - although there seems to be more debate about keeping holiday records and other noise than actually addressing the issue.

I think most people are just a little incredulous that such an amount can have been racked up without anyone noticing until now, and are pointing out that the onus is on the employee as much as it is on the employer to keep an eye on bonus payments made/received, holiday taken vs entitlement etc, to avoid situations such as this.

And the elephant in the room: no, it can't be kept. If owed, it must be paid back.