Lloyds TSB and Data Protection

OceanSound

eskbanker wrote: »

..with sight of all relevant documentation.....

You mean with the 'contact notes'. i.e. the same notes which were not available to the OP's dad when he made a SAR to Lloyds.

I don't believe that CASS-initiated redirections require the consent of the sender (hence jones's situation) but could be wrong on that.

I mean, for a change to SO, as in change to reference number, adding/removing it etc. Not changes to bank name, account number, sort code of receiver account. As I understand, these would change when a CASS switch is done in the background. It dosen't make sense to ask the OP'S dad if he consents to the Council changing bank accounts. But dropping a reference number is a substantial change to the actual SO, so he would need to give consent.

...but as posted previously, if that was a Lloyds mistake then it's a relatively minor admin issue (from a Lloyds perspective) compared with making changes without authority to do so.

A minor admin issue that resulted in a CCJ recorded against his dad, affected his health and caused untold mental worry no doubt. How about seeing the bigger picture here, rather than the narrow view through 'Lloyds perspective', which is the same view that FOS used.

Anyway, next time I miss a payment on my credit card, I'll just put it down to a 'minor admin issue' and offer to pay a few quid as 'compensation' (a fraction of what they usually charge for late payments). I doubt the bank would be satisfied though.

p.s. FOS are aware that customers that come to them are not millionaires, so they pitch the compensation at just the right amount to dangle to carrot. My personal experience has been that they close more cases through compensation offers during January than other months. Wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that more of us are cash-strapped during that month, would it?

jayu619

Hi All-

Thank you for your valued inputs

I was wondering, whether I should put in a SAR request to FoS because from their investigation response, there seems to be additional information they had, which we were not given - one being, the exact date my father supposedly went into the bank to cancel old SO and set up new one.

Also, is there any way of requesting information regarding banks and how they handle payments going to a closed account and new account, from both Co-Op and NatWest? Is a FOI applicable to both these institutions?

Thanks in advance,
Jay

eskbanker

OceanSound wrote: »

You mean with the 'contact notes'. i.e. the same notes which were not available to the OP's dad when he made a SAR to Lloyds.

You don't know that, and I already said in a previous post that if Lloyds didn't make those notes available to OP's dad then that would be a breach of the DPA, as they'd have been legally obliged to disclose them. Also, I wasn't specifically referring to those notes, I literally meant all relevant documentation.

OceanSound wrote: »

I mean, for a change to SO, as in change to reference number, adding/removing it etc. Not changes to bank name, account number, sort code of receiver account. As I understand, these would change when a CASS switch is done in the background. It dosen't make sense to ask the OP'S dad if he consents to the Council changing bank accounts. But dropping a reference number is a substantial change to the actual SO, so he would need to give consent.

I don't for a second believe that there was a conscious decision to drop a reference number so the issue of consent to do so doesn't come into play. The FOS state that the original SO was cancelled and a new one created, and so by far the most likely interpretation is that the reference number was inadvertently omitted as a side-effect of that process, rather than being dropped deliberately as a separate exercise.

OceanSound wrote: »

A minor admin issue that resulted in a CCJ recorded against his dad, affected his health and caused untold mental worry no doubt.

You're taking my words out of context, the point being made was that inadvertently omitting a reference number is way less serious than deliberately making unauthorised changes. I'm not looking to downplay the consequences of all this on OP's dad, but am just looking at the root causes rather than the effects.

OceanSound wrote: »

How about seeing the bigger picture here, rather than the narrow view through 'Lloyds perspective', which is the same view that FOS used.

I do see the bigger picture but the FOS are only empowered to consider the bank's actions rather than those of the council, who clearly had a substantial hand in compounding the situation.

OceanSound wrote: »

Anyway, next time I miss a payment on my credit card, I'll just put it down to a 'minor admin issue' and offer to pay a few quid as 'compensation' (a fraction of what they usually charge for late payments). I doubt the bank would be satisfied though.

p.s. FOS are aware that customers that come to them are not millionaires, so they pitch the compensation at just the right amount to dangle to carrot. My personal experience has been that they close more cases through compensation offers during January than other months. Wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that more of us are cash-strapped during that month, would it?

You're getting a bit carried away now and as these last comments are going off-topic I don't think it'll be worth discussing them any further as they don't relate to OP's situation.

eskbanker

jayu619 wrote: »

I was wondering, whether I should put in a SAR request to FoS because from their investigation response, there seems to be additional information they had, which we were not given - one being, the exact date my father supposedly went into the bank to cancel old SO and set up new one.

It sounds like it would be worth submitting a SAR to FOS, since, as I've said above, if Lloyds gave them info that they didn't supply to you and your dad when obliged to do so then that puts Lloyds in breach of the DPA, for which you can report them to the ICO (and expect further compensation from Lloyds).

jayu619 wrote: »

Also, is there any way of requesting information regarding banks and how they handle payments going to a closed account and new account, from both Co-Op and NatWest? Is a FOI applicable to both these institutions?

No, FOI only applies to public sector bodies. Has it been established that the council used CASS to switch an account from one to the other, as this brings automated redirection into play?

Is there any doubt that the late 2016 payments were sent to the right account (but without the reference)?

jayu619

eskbanker wrote: »

It sounds like it would be worth submitting a SAR to FOS, since, as I've said above, if Lloyds gave them info that they didn't supply to you and your dad when obliged to do so then that puts Lloyds in breach of the DPA, for which you can report them to the ICO (and expect further compensation from Lloyds).

No, FOI only applies to public sector bodies. Has it been established that the council used CASS to switch an account from one to the other, as this brings automated redirection into play?

Is there any doubt that the late 2016 payments were sent to the right account (but without the reference)?

Thanks, I will send out an SAr for FOS - just one question, can we do this by email or does it have to be in writing?

And thanks for clarifying about FOI. Not yet established - I have sent off SAR and FOI to council in respect of this question. I should hear back within the next 4 weeks, given the statutory time limit has decreased to 30 days for SAR and 20 days for FOI. I will keep yourself and everyone posted on this matter.

No doubt at all, because the payments had not bounced into my dads Lloyds account, if there was any issue, i am sure Lloyds would have notified him or something. It was only during the new So being setup, no reference was placed but monies were going into council suspense account. Is that what you meant by your question?

OceanSound

eskbanker wrote: »

....
You're getting a bit carried away now and as these last comments are going off-topic I don't think it'll be worth discussing them any further as they don't relate to OP's situation.

no!, no!, only giving some background/context to this rather unsavoury debacle. I'm pretty sure I've seen other threads where posters talked about what colour jumper they were wearing when they complained to their bank.

OceanSound

jayu619 wrote: »

Thanks, I will send out an SAr for FOS - just one question, can we do this by email or does it have to be in writing?

And thanks for clarifying about FOI. Not yet established - I have sent off SAR and FOI to council in respect of this question. I should hear back within the next 4 weeks, given the statutory time limit has decreased to 30 days for SAR and 20 days for FOI. I will keep yourself and everyone posted on this matter.

No doubt at all, because the payments had not bounced into my dads Lloyds account, if there was any issue, i am sure Lloyds would have notified him or something. It was only during the new So being setup, no reference was placed but monies were going into council suspense account. Is that what you meant by your question?

You can do it via email. See: http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/about/asking-for-information.html#a1

If you want to pay the 10 pound Fee by bank transfer, just mention it when you make the request. They will send you details of the account number and sort code.

Once you make the payment, their finance team will email you to confirm receipt.

THey may ask you for ID (never asked me). provided you fulfill this and they confirm receiving payment, tHats when the 30 calendar day countdown begins. (Yes, you are correct it's now 30 calendar days with GDPR coming in to force)
Earlier I was referring to the old time limit.

Of course FOI is 20 working days.

Note the FOI webpage above still says 40 calendar days for SAR processing. Seems it's not been updated.

eskbanker

jayu619 wrote: »

Thanks, I will send out an SAr for FOS - just one question, can we do this by email or does it have to be in writing?

Details are at http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/about/asking-for-information.html (as OceanSound has advised while I was typing!). Note that they should no longer charge a fee now that GDPR has come into force.

jayu619 wrote: »

No doubt at all, because the payments had not bounced into my dads Lloyds account, if there was any issue, i am sure Lloyds would have notified him or something. It was only during the new So being setup, no reference was placed but monies were going into council suspense account. Is that what you meant by your question?

Sort of - I was understanding that the payments were getting through to the council (albeit without reference) so it's not clear to me what the significance is of whether they did so via Co-Op or NatWest, i.e. what do you hope to achieve with your line of questioning about those two banks?

jayu619

thank you for confirming.

the rationale behind the asking those questions to the banks would be to guage as to how their banking procedures work, because i suspect the council to give vague if not no answers at all, i relation to my SAR and FOI to them. Atleast, if bank can confirm jonesMUFC's theory, then we can go back to the council and ask them more questions as to why they failed to notify Lloyds of new bank details omitting the reference.

Right now, it all points to the council who have done wrong.
What do you think?

[Deleted User]

jayu619 wrote: »

thank you for confirming.
but isn't it free now under gdpr rules?

Certainly is.

Only send £10 if you're looking to make a charitable contribution towards their Christmas party.