NCP Appeal rejected

Plodge

Hello all

Just looking for a little clarity, apologies if this is in the wrong format/area.
I'm the registered keeper of a vehicle who wasn't driving when a parking ticket was received, have followed the advice on here to send the one size fits all template to appeal.

The appeal was rejected by NCP (their email reply below)

"Dear ********

Re:***********issued at ****** - All Saints West on 24 March 2018 to vehicle with registration mark **********

Thank you for your recent correspondence regarding the above notice number. We have considered the case carefully and have decided to reject your appeal on the following grounds;

The Parking Attendant has recorded that the vehicle was parked in a pay and display bay without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket. The valid pay and display ticket must then be clearly displayed ensuring that the expiry date is clearly visible from the outside of the vehicle.

Following the introduction of the Protection of Freedoms act 2012 on the 1st October 2012 lobbying by the BPA the Bill introduces a duty on the keeper to identify the driver providing a serviceable address when enquiries are made by the landowner or his agent. Failing this the keeper becomes liable for any parking charges due as a result of the breach of contract or trespass.

Please note, to date you not have provided a serviceable address for the driver of the vehicle, therefore if this is not provided you, as the registered keeper of the vehicle, are liable for the Parking Charge Notice.

To view the photographic evidence please log-in via .ncp.co.uk/pcn which is the same location as you made your appeal from. If you are unable to view the evidence, please contact us.

The Terms and Conditions of which our services are provided are clearly displayed on entrance and throughout our facilities, including the requirement for motorist to ensure valid payment is clearly displayed at all times in the vehicle. We are confident that all signage and the PCN are compliant with all industry standards and to the British Parking Association's code of practice to which we subscribe.

You now have the following options;
Pay the Parking Charge Notice at the discounted amount of £60.00 within 14 days. Please note that after this time the Parking Charge Notice will increase to the full charge of £100.00.
Payment can be made:
* Online, by visiting .ncp.co.uk/pcn
* By sending a cheque or postal order, made payable to National Car Parks Ltd to: National Car Parks Ltd. Notice Processing, PO Box 839, Northampton, NN4 4AL.
* By Debit or Credit card (except American Express). Please call 0345 452 7780 and have your card details and the information held in this letter to hand.

Alternatively, you can make an appeal to POPLA - The Independent Appeals Service. If you wish to make an appeal to POPLA the forms are available on the website at popla.co.uk]. The verification code you will need in order to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service is ***********. Please note that if you opt for independent arbitration of your case you will lose your opportunity to pay the discounted offer and the full amount of the parking charge will apply. Your appeal to POPLA must be made within 28 days of the date of this letter, any appeals to POPLA made after the 28 days will not be assessed. The independent adjudicator is unable to waive the parking notice because of mitigating circumstances and a decision will be based on facts and evidence only. If you have any trouble in appealing or cannot access the website please contact us on 01604 625 622.

By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services ombudsman-services.or provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.

If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.
Yours sincerely,
Notice Processing Team
National Car Parks"

This is the only communication received other than the original windscreen ticket,from what I've read this doesn't constitute a valid NTK is this correct.

Also From what I have read here (thanks to all for the time you spend) we are at a point (at the time of posting) that they are too late to send a NTK and claim Keeper Liability.

Can someone confirm that I am correct in this belief?

The next step would be to send off the appeal to POPLA claiming "no keeper Liability" am I correct in this?

Would it be necessary to send any further points as in the posts on other defences about signage etc as I wasn't the driver?

The driver hasn't been identified but wanted clarity on the next step regarding responsibility to divulge this. I have read through the forums to find similar to the point where eyes were glazing over but haven't found anything that points in the right direction.

Thanks in advance.
P

Quentin

Read up on POPLA appeals in the Newbies faq (#3)


Take it slowly and take a break when your eyes start to glaze!


Never reveal who was driving!

Plodge

I have done that several times, my post was the result of my understanding of the overwhelming legal jargon, ie see subsection 8 paragraph 9, therefores, if's, maybes etc.

To those with an understanding of law or the free time to learn, it may make sense but no amount of breaks is making it any clearer.

I don't understand the logic of saying the signs weren't adequate or any other points when I wasn't there, so why say it in an appeal.

I wasn't the driver, my understanding again from what I've read is if they don't send a NTK within set timeframe I can't be pursued for the charges as the registered keeper.

Sorry I appreciate realise there are lots of what would be simple questions asked here, I thought in this case it might be possible to get a yes thats right or "no you need to do this because", which are answers I can't find, just "nead the newbies faq" what happens when you have and aren't sure if what you read is the correct understanding.

Redx

firstly, edit post #1 and remove that popla number


NEVER leave identifying data on the internet , especially as somebody could use it and just say FRO in the comments box and submit it

---

THINK !!!



AND , no , as "your understanding" has many flaws in it


as a windscreen ticket was issued on the day , NCP can only obtain keeper details after day 28 , so from day 29 and it must arrive by day 56 following the event if they wish to use POFA2012 against a keeper


so take the day of the event and add 57 days to it and that is the last date a valid NTK can be served, if it came later or not at all, they failed POFA2012 and therefore the keeper could not be held liable


so calculate that date, make sure the popla appeal goes in AFTER it , but before day 33 following the rejection , ideally within 28 days of receiving the popla code


so a popla appeal goes in AFTER day 57 and hopefully mentioning the lack of the NTK etc , BUT BEFORE the popla deadline date


signage is ALWAYS used, regardless, as a keeper may have checked up on it, PLUS anything NOT MENTIONED will NOT be considered


so you query EVERYTHING , and accept NOTHING


it is for them to prove all of their case, on the other hand you only need to prove they failed on ONE point , so chuck all the legal points into the mix , regardless, no arguments , no IFS , no BUTS , just do it , regardless

Plodge

Thank you, that is helpful. code removed thanks for the spot

Day 57 from the event is tomorrow, as the post won't come on a Sunday we are good in that regard, will send the POPLA appeal on Tuesday.

With all that I will get copy and pasting, although as there is no possibility of the NTK arriving in time they can't chase myself, am I correct there is no requirement to name the driver either?

Thanks again.

Redx

there is definitely no requirement to name the driver


do not be rushing to send in a popla appeal, work out 28 days from the rejection letter and give yourself time to hone the popla appeal, starting with the NO KEEPER liability due to no NTK arriving , POFA2012 not valid in this case, the HENRY GREENSLADE wordings etc


then add the usual NO LANDOWNER AUTHORITY and SIGNAGE issues , any BPA CoP failures , the new ICO anpr data argument etc - pad it out with everything you can so they fold when they see it


a one shot popla appeal based on POFA2012 is a dangerous lack of detail, wen a kitchen sink approach usually works best


so once your popla appeal is drafted and approved, save as a pdf and UPLOAD it on the popla website , choosing OTHER as the reason (ignore everything else they say , just choose OTHER regardless)

fisherjim

Know your enemy, these are the odds of them taking you to court:


http://www.parkingappeals.info/companydata/National_Car_Parks.html

Umkomaas

Following the introduction of the Protection of Freedoms act 2012 on the 1st October 2012 lobbying by the BPA the Bill introduces a duty on the keeper to identify the driver providing a serviceable address when enquiries are made by the landowner or his agent.

Absolute misrepresentation of PoFA. There is unequivocally no such 'duty' on the keeper. So, in addition to drafting your POPLA appeal, you should make a strong complaint to the BPA, that NCP issuing such misleading information, not backed by the law they are quoting from, should be sanctionable by the BPA. Ask them to investigate and provide you with reasons why NCP continue to peddle this line and why nothing has been done about it?

aos@britishparking.co.uk - FTAO Mr Steve Clark

Coupon-mad

I agree, I hope Steve Clark sees this one.

NCP cannot keep misrepresenting the law.

the Bill introduces a duty on the keeper

It's an Act now and introduced no 'duties' on a registered keeper whatsoever.

Shocking misinformation.

Plodge

Thanks for all the help, I have just received an email from POPLA appeal confirming that NCP do not wish to contest the appeal.

This is a brilliant resource and a great community, I can't express how good it feels to stick one in the eye of these con merchants.
Thanks again.

Ralph-y

well done .......


so now your bit ...
#
please watch / read the below...... then write ....


https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.








Ralph:cool: