I can't get a straight answer to this question.

Hoof_Hearted

Simplified version.

Electricity:

Supplier A closing reading 3000.
Supplier B opening reading 2800 (estimated)

This results in paying for 200 units twice.

Supplier B says tough luck, it's within 250 units, so nothing we can do. They refuse to change the opening reading.

Where is the evidence that I can throw at them to show they are wrong? Or are they correct?

It's not the money. Supplier B are rubbish and I want to show them that they are wrong but I need chapter and verse.

System

The straight answer is that you will never pay for the same energy twice. This is why meter readings on a transfer of supply are validated by an independent industry third-party. Both suppliers have to accept the validated readings. If the readings used on your Final Bill are different from those on your opening bill, then contact your new supplier. It has the Licence obligation to manage the transfer of supply.

https://octopus.energy/blog/secret-life-opening-meter-reading/

A meter readings dispute can only be opened if the industry-estimated openings are outwith the limits in this link:

https://forum.ovoenergy.com/reading-disputes-69/my-opening-meter-reading-is-within-tolerance-what-does-this-mean-1690/index1.html

In the event that an opening reading is higher than that shown on the meter, the new supplier is only paid a daily standing charge until the meter passes the opening reading.

Finally, it is often the case that consumers think that they need to provide their old supplier with a closing reading/s on switch. This isn't needed and it often adds an element of un-necessary confusion to the Final Billing process.

glennevis

I had the same situation.
Are you sure supplier A's last bill is marked "final bill"?
In my case supplier B did not log my opening reading which I submitted on line, but used an estimate which was lower than actual reading, as in your case.



In my case supplier A had issued a bill for the higher reading 2 days before the switching date.
Since the meter would appear to have gone backwards they could not issue a final bill. They didn't think to tell me this.

I was unaware that the last bill I had from them was not final, I didn't notice the 2 day discrepancy in date. I only became aware there was a problem a month after the switch when they started sending emails saying they were "unable to issue a final bill".
After 4 calls and 2 months after the switch, a CS rep finally worked out what was happening and resolved the issue by cancelling the last bill. This enabled supplier A's computer system to accept supplier B's lower estimated figure. I then received a bill marked "final bill" using the lower figure as a closing reading.
So no paying for units twice.

System

glennevis wrote: »

I had the same situation.
Are you sure supplier A's last bill is marked "final bill"?
In my case supplier B did not log my opening reading which I submitted on line, but used an estimate which was lower than actual reading, as in your case.



In my case supplier A had issued a bill for the higher reading 2 days before the switching date.
Since the meter would appear to have gone backwards they could not issue a final bill. They didn't think to tell me this.

I was unaware that the last bill I had from them was not final, I didn't notice the 2 day discrepancy in date. I only became aware there was a problem a month after the switch when they started sending emails saying they were "unable to issue a final bill".
After 4 calls and 2 months after the switch, a CS rep finally worked out what was happening and resolved the issue by cancelling the last bill. This enabled supplier A's computer system to accept supplier B's lower estimated figure. I then received a bill marked "final bill" using the lower figure as a closing reading.
So no paying for units twice.

You have identified another area of potential consumer confusion. Suppliers have to use their reasonable efforts to produce a Final Bill no later than 6 weeks after the date that the supply was transferred away from them. The external validation process usually takes up to 10 days after transfer. Consumers cannot understand why the switching process takes so long: the answer is simple, there are many industry parties involved and some of the underpinning procedures are no longer fit for purpose imho. Indeed, it was only last year that the process for gas switches involving IGTs was automated.

molerat

By the rules supplier A are in the wrong, get them to change their bill. I had similar when I changed, due to my new supplier changing the readings, and old supplier changed their closing read without question.

MABLE

I recently changed suppliers and made a point of giving the new and outgoing suppliers the readings within the time specified. Hopefully there will be no issues as my old supplier owes me about £100.00.

spiro

Simply answer, the new suppliers provides the old supplier with the CoS reading. Both suppliers have to use the same reading, you CANNOT be charged for the same energy twice.
The 250kwh rule is around disputing between the 2 suppliers because of the costs involved. There is nothing stopping the supplier coming to an agreement with you.

Go here and read MAP08 - https://www.mrasco.com/mra-products/mra-agreed-procedures/

Hoof_Hearted

I have received a "Final Statement" from Supplier A. It uses the correct reading, the one I gave to both suppliers on the date of transfer, together with a photograph of the meter.

It bugs me that the opening reading with Supplier B is estimated and is wrong. I quite understand about meter reading disputes and that a reading may move one way or the other but I contend that it should be the same reading for both Supplier A and Supplier B. I have paid twice for a small amount of electricity. What I can't find anywhere is a ruling that the opening and closing readings must be the same.

Well done to Octopus for such a clear explanation, but it doesn't answer my question.

System

MABLE wrote: »

I recently changed suppliers and made a point of giving the new and outgoing suppliers the readings within the time specified. Hopefully there will be no issues as my old supplier owes me about £100.00.

Your old supplier should ignore any readings that you have provided as it is required to do so by the Regulations. You only need to give a supplier closing readings if you are moving out of a property. Standard Licence Conditions require the gaining supplier to manage the transfer. This includes asking you for a reading/s 5 days before the planned date of transfer. It is these readings that are verified by the data collectors. The verified readings are then passed back to the two suppliers. Sadly, some supplier's systems do accept the readings provided by a customer and the customer gets a bill which he/she thinks is the Final Bill. The process then has to be reversed when the verified readings are received.

In sum, in my experience, consumers will have less problems on switching if they deal exclusively with the gaining supplier.

System

Hoof_Hearted wrote: »

I have received a "Final Statement" from Supplier A. It uses the correct reading, the one I gave to both suppliers on the date of transfer, together with a photograph of the meter.

It bugs me that the opening reading with Supplier B is estimated and is wrong. I quite understand about meter reading disputes and that a reading may move one way or the other but I contend that it should be the same reading for both Supplier A and Supplier B. I have paid twice for a small amount of electricity. What I can't find anywhere is a ruling that the opening and closing readings must be the same.

Well done to Octopus for such a clear explanation, but it doesn't answer my question.

If your opening and closing readings are different then:

a. Contact the gaining supplier and ask them to confirm in writing what verified meter readings were passed to the losing supplier and on what date.

b. Ask the gaining supplier to send the readings to the losing supplier again pointing out that the old supplier is using different readings to close your account. A good supplier will offer to resolve this for you as it is required to do.

c. Complain to the losing supplier in writing asking them to re-issue your Final Bill using the verified meter readings of X and Y as provided to them on AA/BB/18.

You will not pay for the same energy twice. If the industry estimated figure is lower than your actual reading, then you might end up being a few pence out by having to pay a slightly higher kWh price. If it works the other way, you might make a few pence.

This system exists because:

a. People misread their meters.

b. People are away or cannot be bothered to read their meters.

c. As promoted by a few popsters on this forum, there is a perception that money can be saved by offering the new supplier an incorrect meter reading.

Finally, I should add that the more actual meter readings that you provide to a supplier, the more accurate the verification process will be. My last two readings on transfer were just accepted without any change,

https://www.so.energy/so/help-and-advice/faq/switching-to-us/disputing-reads

bwff

Hoof_Hearted wrote: »

Simplified version.

Electricity:

Supplier A closing reading 3000.
Supplier B opening reading 2800 (estimated)

This results in paying for 200 units twice.

Supplier B says tough luck, it's within 250 units, so nothing we can do. They refuse to change the opening reading.

Where is the evidence that I can throw at them to show they are wrong? Or are they correct?

It's not the money. Supplier B are rubbish and I want to show them that they are wrong but I need chapter and verse.

Is this straight enough an answer for you?

The closing meter reading of the outgoing supplier must be the opening reading used by the new supplier.
No ifs, no buts.

You appear to be confusing the allowed tolerances that suppliers are under no obligation to investigate if within.
But that refers to where you dispute the opening (which is also the closing) reading used

e.g.

Electricity:

Supplier A closing reading 3000.
Supplier B opening reading 3000

You contend that the reading to be used should actually be 2950

Suppliers say tough because it is within the acceptable tolerance
- what you pay supplier A, you won't have to pay supplier B, or vice versa if you contend the reading to be used should be 3050

However, if you suggest meter reading to be used should actually be 300, not 3000, then the supplier will need to investigate and come to an agreed resolution.