Signed and unsigned will

paigesaunt

Would it be possible for executors to distribute to beneficiaries the wishes in a will made shortly before death and not signed.
I think I read somewhere that it's possible if all beneficiaries agree, but does that mean all, or the majority as I believe this is the case, but one hasn't been asked if he agrees, nor has he seen the unsigned will.

buildersdaughter

There are more knowledgeable people on the sub-section 'deaths, wills & probate' but here goes:
It will depend on the legal position with regard to the deceased's estate.
An unsigned will is not valid. So either there is a previous, and still valid will, or the deceased died intestate.
If there is a valid will then the estate has to be executed in accordance with it. The beneficiaries can, in some circumstances, agree either on a legal 'variation' to change the will, or manage it informally among themselves.
Look up what happens without a will on gov.uk.

If any of the beneficiaries are in receipt of benefits, or council funded social care, or similar, then they can't change the legacy (deprivation of benefits)

But if the beneficiaries aren't in that position, then normally they can agree among themselves. A common situation (which I have been in) is this: Deceased's will leaves everything to their children - they have asked informally that some money be given directly to grandchildren, a gift given to a helpful neighbour or a relative in need, or similar. If you are not dealing with large sums, this can usually be organised within the family. Keep careful records of the agreement and the dispersal of funds.

In my case, there was only me and one other beneficiary, in total agreement about the slightly different dispersal of funds.

Anything more than this needs legal advice, and certainly can't be done if the beneficiaries don't agree wholeheartedly.

Flugelhorn

years back my grandmother somehow managed to get her will witnessed by her friends at a birthday tea (though what they thought they were signing I don't know) but didn't actually sign the thing herself...

There were 5 children, the unsigned will left everything (which wasn't much) to the youngest son who had lived with her all her life (and probably paid for quite a lot of stuff in latter years).

Other 4 kids agreed that the sentiment in the will was entirely reasonable and a solicitor relative drew up a deed which was signed by the 4 after the funeral to the effect that they agreed with the unsigned will.

Keep_pedalling

The will is invalid, if there is a previous signed will that still stands, if this is the only will then the estate should be distributed under intestacy rules. If the beneficiaries all agree to that they want to abide by the invalid will then they can do so through a deed of variation, but no beneficiary adversely affected by this unsigned will has to do this.

Malthusian

Flugelhorn wrote: »

years back my grandmother somehow managed to get her will witnessed by her friends at a birthday tea (though what they thought they were signing I don't know)

They probably thought they were witnessing her Will. DIYing a Will is a silly thing to do and this story illustrates why. However, a birthday tea seems a perfectly good time to gather a couple of independent witnesses who aren't named in the Will. And if the disinherited children tried to challenge it, everyone else at the tea could confirm that she was perfectly compos mentis and wasn't under pressure from the sole beneficiary.

buildersdaughter wrote: »

If any of the beneficiaries are in receipt of benefits, or council funded social care, or similar, then they can't change the legacy (deprivation of benefits)

To be very pedantic, they can change the legacy, it's just likely to be a very bad idea. Due to deprivation of assets rules, they would be assessed if they still had the money. Their benefits would be stopped (or reduced) and they wouldn't have the money from the inheritance either.

But if the beneficiaries aren't in that position, then normally they can agree among themselves. A common situation (which I have been in) is this: Deceased's will leaves everything to their children - they have asked informally that some money be given directly to grandchildren, a gift given to a helpful neighbour or a relative in need, or similar. If you are not dealing with large sums, this can usually be organised within the family. Keep careful records of the agreement and the dispersal of funds.

Worth noting that this should ideally be done as a Deed of Variation and not simply by the beneficiary in the Will giving money to the grandchildren or the neighbour or whoever. If A leaves money to B who gives it to C, and B dies within seven years of the gift, there is the potential for two whacks of Inheritance Tax on the same money, first from A's estate and then B's. If they DOV it such that A leaves it directly to C, only one whack of Inheritance Tax is paid, by A's estate.

seven-day-weekend

Flugelhorn wrote: »

years back my grandmother somehow managed to get her will witnessed by her friends at a birthday tea (though what they thought they were signing I don't know) but didn't actually sign the thing herself...

There were 5 children, the unsigned will left everything (which wasn't much) to the youngest son who had lived with her all her life (and probably paid for quite a lot of stuff in latter years).

Other 4 kids agreed that the sentiment in the will was entirely reasonable and a solicitor relative drew up a deed which was signed by the 4 after the funeral to the effect that they agreed with the unsigned will.

Isn't it supposed to be the signature that is witnessed? The witness should be able to say if necessary that they witnessed Mrs X signing a document, to ascertain that it was indeed Mrs X, and that it is indeed Mrs X's signature. Witnessing an unsigned document means nothing.

ognum

paigesaunt wrote: »

Would it be possible for executors to distribute to beneficiaries the wishes in a will made shortly before death and not signed.
I think I read somewhere that it's possible if all beneficiaries agree, but does that mean all, or the majority as I believe this is the case, but one hasn't been asked if he agrees, nor has he seen the unsigned will.

As far as I am aware the executors of an estate are duty bound to distribute the estate according to the legally valid will. They do not have a choice what they do they have to do what’s legally correct or step down from being an executor.

Once distributed according to the legal will the beneficiaries can do what they like with the funds and chattels the year can if they choose disburse them according to the non signed will but the executors cannnot.

paigesaunt

Sorry, I did mean to post in the Deaths, Wiils and Probate forum, my error.

The will has been the same for in excess of 30 years, it was changed upon diagnosis of cancer, and then around 2 months later, and a month before the death, another was written but never signed.
The executor mentioned early on after the death that he wanted to carry out the wishes of the unsigned will as in his belief that was the last wishes of the deceased.
I wondered if all beneficiaries needed to agree to this variation, or the majority. Of the 6 beneficiaries (two of which are the executors) two are being kept in the dark, it's even been mentioned that one of the beneficiaries doesn't know she's getting anything so he (one of the executors) won't bother to give it to her.
They'll be no issue with deprivation of assests re care home fee's and the estate is fairly large. Executors haven't applied for probate yet and it's over a year since the death.
Something just doesn't sit right with it all.

Keep_pedalling

The executor, has no right to make any decisions about distributions, he or she must follow the valid will, not the useless piece of unsigned paper. If I was a beneficiary I would be getting this person removed, they are not fit to do the job.

buildersdaughter

First of all, when I put that those in receipt of benefit 'can't change the legacy' I decided not to complicate matters by being 'pedantic', but knew someone would come along to put me right! Malthusian is also of course, correct about doing a proper 'Deed of Variation' but we were under inheritance tax, and so would I be, so did not fuss about it for relatively small sums.

paigesaunt: no, it is not about the majority. The executor needs to carry out the terms of the valid will exactly. There can only be any variation if everyone agrees freely.
The executor does need to get on with their job, like it or not, or stand down and appoint a solicitor.
I'm not sure what your interest is, but if you are one of the beneficiaries, you need to let them know that this can't continue. I would firstly let them know informally, then write a formal letter (hand delivered or 'signed for' saying that you will be taking legal proceedings if they don't begin work on getting probate and distributing the estate. If your legacy is substantial enough, I would then begin legal proceedings.
Having said that, are you quite sure that you know the contents of the valid will? The will has to admitted to probate, and the executors have to swear an oath.
We've had a few queries on this board where people think they know the contents of a will, then find out that it is quite different.

Mojisola

paigesaunt wrote: »

I wondered if all beneficiaries needed to agree to this variation, or the majority. Of the 6 beneficiaries (two of which are the executors) two are being kept in the dark, it's even been mentioned that one of the beneficiaries doesn't know she's getting anything so he (one of the executors) won't bother to give it to her.

All beneficiaries who are adversely affected have to agree to any changes.

In the light of the comments about not giving one beneficiary their inheritance, I would also consider the executor an unfit person to deal with the estate.