Houses more affordable than 1970s

Herzlos

GreatApe wrote: »

No most people don't do it they just go with the flow

If you want more money the easiest way is to just ask. Sure it won't work 90% of the time but the 10% of the time that it does work it only cost you a ten minute conversation. Offer the business something more than you currently give.

Or jump companies most bosses won't pay more for what they see as the same output but new companies will often pay more to take you away from your current place

In your world, sure. But for people on a fixed wage and no space to advance, that's not actually an option. A shop worker*, for instance, can only get a pay rise by moving up to management, and that requires someone from management to leave. They could move to another shop for more or less the same deal.


In places where everyone is on individual salaries and have the opportunity to add value then that might work (I bet you'd be told no in 99%+ cases unless you're willing to leave).



*Replace with Teacher, Police Officer, administrator, taxi driver and so on.

spadoosh

westernpromise wrote: »

Has it occurred to you at all that houses were cheap and home ownership rare in the past because fewer people could get a mortgage?

Many of those bellyaching now about how cheap houses were in 1970 wouldn't have been able to get a loan then.

You should research what youre suggesting before you post.

Home ownership in the 70's was 50% now its about 64%. So a 14% increase in home ownership levels has increased prices adjusted for infaltion by some 200+%? And that backs up your argument how because it looks like its just reaffirming mine?

Graham_Devon

I'd suggest that or those stating £350 each and every month is neither here nor there, or nothing, that they are somewhat misinformed when it comes to the average joe on the street.

GreatApe

Herzlos wrote: »

In your world, sure. But for people on a fixed wage and no space to advance, that's not actually an option. A shop worker*, for instance, can only get a pay rise by moving up to management, and that requires someone from management to leave. They could move to another shop for more or less the same deal.

In places where everyone is on individual salaries and have the opportunity to add value then that might work (I bet you'd be told no in 99%+ cases unless you're willing to leave).

*Replace with Teacher, Police Officer, administrator, taxi driver and so on.

If you' are a shop worker the solution isn't to go from asda to tesco seeking a pay rise the solution is to leave retail.

People just aren't hungry and there's nothing wrong with that if you are happy with what you've got.
But plenty of people complain and don't do anything about it. I've personally offered shop workers better paid work (>2x what they were being paid) only to be met with excuses as to why they cant or wont move. Not only that but when people give you these opportunities its just a start if you do a good job and work hard they will open up more possibilities for you.

Having said that i am fully aware some perhaps most people simply aren't capable of hard work or initiative. For them fortunately there is at least a welfare state to keep them fed and watered.

GreatApe

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I'd suggest that or those stating £350 each and every month is neither here nor there, or nothing, that they are somewhat misinformed when it comes to the average joe on the street.

that £350 is at the extreme end of a very large housepricecrash that happens very quickly and also assuming very high interest rates that don't resemble today or likely reality and it also assumes that you call the market at the very top rather than waiting x years watching the market go higher and higher.

But what you miss completely is that you're not comparing or valuing your time take yourself for incense over 50000 posts how much time do you think you've dedicated to this cause maybe the equivalent of 4-5 full work years? Something like eight to Ten Thousand Hours?

They say it takes 10000 hours to become a master of anything. what have you become the master of for your 10000 hours of investment? do you not believe you could exceed £350 per month increase in income if you had soent 10000 hours improving yourself your knowledge skills in some other way??

10,000 hours of investment will yeild a good result for most people
But you've spent 10,000 hours becoming a master of house price crash predictions and analysis
How that's working out for you?

You know have two choices. Stop this nonsense and spend your next 10,000 hours of time improving your pay and wages and heath and wellbeing or spend another 10,000 hours getting a PhD in house price crash analysis. Which road do you feel is going to be the better road for you?

Malthusian

Herzlos wrote: »

If only it was that easy to just get a pay rise; we'd all do it.

GreatApe referred to potentially 100-1000 hours of work to get that pay rise. Easy?

A shop worker*, for instance, can only get a pay rise by moving up to management, and that requires someone from management to leave.

Nonsense. They have an infinite array of other options. You have it entirely !!!-backwards - it is easier for an unskilled or semi-skilled labourer to get a pay rise than anyone else. I am a trained and experienced professional and the most realistic way to increase my pay is to climb the ladder in my current profession. If I decide to retrain in another industry, I will have to start at the bottom, or close to it, and accept a massive cut in pay. Someone on minimum wage however can study or train up to enter any industry they feel like without worrying about a temporary drop in pay. All they are risking is time.


Nobody said it was easy, you made that up. GreatApe's point is that it is a more productive use of time than posting in an echo chamber of bitter incels and fantasising that a house price crash will give you everything you want.

ukcarper

Average earnings for a man in 1976 was £70 a week in 2017 it was £592.

Average house price 1976 £12k compared to £212k

1976 mortgage rate 12% now 3.5%

£10.8k mortgage £115 per month which is roughly 1.6x weekly pay

£190k mortgage £960 per month which is roughly 1.6x weekly pay

£10.8k would have been 3x earnings but £190k is 6.2x earnings would you be able to get mortgage now.

lisyloo

Average earnings for a man

Things have changed a great deal for women though.

westernpromise

spadoosh wrote: »

You should research what youre suggesting before you post.

Home ownership in the 70's was 50% now its about 64%. So a 14% increase in home ownership levels has increased prices adjusted for infaltion by some 200+%? And that backs up your argument how because it looks like its just reaffirming mine?

No. It's very simple. If home ownership were genuinely cheaper in the past, why was there less of it?

GreatApe

ilovehouses wrote: »

It's neither here nor there considering the average Joe who chooses to rent whilst waiting for the 30% crash that will give him the riches of £350/ month will be paying somewhat more to his landlord.

With every month that passes the crash they need to breakeven gets bigger. Renting is odd behaviour for people who want to and could buy.

The bet is too expensive. If I could call house prices with any accuracy I wouldn't waste money on buying and selling houses - I'd find a proxy bet. Short a housing index or something.

Exactly the whole idea of HPC cheerleaders is that they can perfectly time a hpc and that the hpc will be of an epic size (rather than the 10% down we saw last time 2008-2010) and that their lives will be so much better for it and this is all worth spending years of your life analysing and thinking about because saving £200 a month (£350 a month is the crash cheerleaders extremely biased guess).

My point is OK guys let's say your correct about everything and it all works out orrfrct for you. So what your life is only better by £200 a month a trivial figure. Stop wasting your time if you want your life to be £200 a month better then uoskill or do something which improves your life more than £200 a month.

That is good advise even at the top of a bubble but seeing as his the crash cheerleaders obviously can't call a top as they have been calling a top for more than 20 years its good advise at the top of a bubble and great advise at every other point in time.

Investing much time in a hpc is stupidity, investing years is madness, doubling down each and every year as most the longer term crash cheerleaders have done is just going to make them miserable and bitter