Electric Bike Attachment to Manual Wheelchair – Not Fit For Purpose.

Les79

ElefantEd wrote: »

I just did a diagram and worked it out from first principles, I teach physics so it's second nature to me! Everything rounded off to make the numbers easy.

But it boils down to P = Wv sinx where W = Weight (in Newtons ie 10 x mass in kg), v = steady velocity, x = angle of slope. You can get the angle from tan x = 1/3 (for a 1 in 3 slope) if that's the way the info is presented. But you'll need a calculator for the tan and sin functions.

Obviously if you start off going fast enough you can get up a short, steep, slope but only by trading off your kinetic energy and losing speed.

That's cool I used to teach maths up to KS3 level and I appreciate the SOHCAHTOA part of your post with the "tan x" bit to work out the angle of ~18%.

The Physics part is a bit beyond my ability.

I just want to say though but you are a real asset to your profession, you really sound like you know your stuff, and I genuinely thank you for that!

apoole

Firstly, thanks for all the reply’s and information provided.

[FONT=&quot]To update, I spoke to the owner of the business yesterday and explained my concern with the bike. He showed concern with regard to my injury sustained and then seemed to defend the reliability and durability of the bike.

I explained it’s inability to climb the bank and the fact that the bike was then not able to hold itself in position when the brakes were applied and the safety element of this.

I then also discussed how at the point of sale of the bike, they did take me out on a trial run (15mins) and we covered a distance over a tar-mac pathway again travelling at top speed along this pathway giving me the impression that the bike was able to tackle most terranes and inclines, at one point one of the group took his bike and chair via an incline onto a raised grassed area to show how it was able to go across grass. They really seemed to apply this was more that just a standard mobility scooter and the best way to travel while in your wheelchair.

He also reaffirmed that the bike and chair was able to scale/tackle a 1-3 bank no problem and that he had been able to scale an incline of greater gradient? and taken his wheelchair with bike through the Delamere Forest (Cheshire) on the tacks and pathways.

He then stated that he would like to come out and look at the incline I failed to climb and show/prove that the bike is able to tackle this and if still not happy with the bike he would provide a refund.

My concerns are still:

Ok, the bike like a mobility scooter does have limitations but does provide additional independence. The normal retail price of this attachment is £4999.00 (wow) but as I was one of the first 20 people to purchase this bike in was reduced to £4000.00. If I return it I will get my £4000.00 refund and with the bike only showing 15km on the clock (7km of that was already on when I purchased it) with a quick brake-handle fix, it will probably then be sold again as new for £4999.00 (leaving me to purchase something else similar at full price).

As per my original post, is this bike suitable for use? As mentioned re speed limits for motorised chairs, the bike does have three speed settings (Walking up to 6kmh) (Cycle up to 12kmh) & (Extreme up to 20kmh) as mentioned with there being limited weight at the front of the unit when climbing inclines, you need to lean forward and to gain momentum to climb banks you need to obtain speed before starting your accent (i.e. speed setting needs to be more than walking pace). I also mentioned that how you need to gain momentum before climbing banks meant that when out with other able-bodied people as a group you need to race off quicker when faced with these inclines.

They gave no advice or guidance regarding speed limits of motorised wheelchairs on public footpaths and even seemed to encourage travelling at high speeds as shown on my test run (the company also produces another bike attachment called a ‘Rapid’ that has a top speed of 28kmh).

I questioned with them when on the test run re Liability Insurance in case of an accident and they inform that the bike came with a liability cover for 12 months but to ensure that if I was to hit anyone make sure that you say your bike was on the walking pace setting (I understand why now?).

I also feel that the sales practice of the company should be question? Obviously as a convenient attachment to give greater independence this appeals to wheelchair users and with the high price for the item provides a good profit for the retailer.

With mentioning all the above points to the business owner, he suggested that he would take my advice on board and look to offer an awareness course for the bikes as part of purchase.

I know the final decision is left with me…. But would you return the bike and put it down to experience? Keep the bike and accept it has limitations i.e. speed, traction, stability?

Or can these above points be addressed via Legal Assistance i.e. miss selling.

Thanking you all again in advance for any reply’s.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

A_Nice_Englishman

£4999? :eek:

As an 'outsider' I'm afraid it appears to me to be a rip-off and potentially dangerous for both the user and the general public. I'd get my money back and buy something else.

If part of the reason for buying it is to have fun (and why not!) would you be able to drive an off-road quad bike? £4000 would buy nearly 100 rides.

https://www.intotheblue.co.uk/driving-experiences/atv/quad-biking/

apoole

Thanks for link re Quad Bike, looks like fun and will contact them re suitability for a wheelchair user...

The bike my post is about is more for day to day use i.e. going to local shop and getting about on days out or when out with friends.

Cheers.

its_all_over

£4000 sounds like it's a ripoff.

Why don't you just buy a proper powered wheelchair? I might not be an expert on wheelchairs, but I have seen plenty of people around town driving something like this that will only cost £1200.

https://www.completecareshop.co.uk/wheelchairs/electric-wheelchairs/titan-powerchair

futurecut

This thread is old but hey its helping me learn to type again...

I think the OP is on a bit of a hiding to nothing and if refunded i think lucky. I think a bit daft as well. Sales patter is one thing but you do have to understand the limitations of both equipment and yourself. For a dealer to claim 1 in 3 is just daft. It may be possible for some, in some instances but be far from normal. This is recogniseable p*sh.

For instance, when i could use my legs a biking group i was with may have had 10 people tackle a difficult, short, steep incline. 2 might have made it look easy, 8 ended up on their !!!!!!. The two that made it are better bikers. They've better understanding and technique, they know how traction works and how to achieve it.

The Batecs are by far the best out there. A million times more flexible than powered chairs and scooters, that's why they exist. But they are by no means perfect and like any throttled thing, it wont do everything you ask of it. Frankly like any chair ascent, if you're not going to make it you should know what to do, not just have blind faith in a brake that though 100% functional, wont work because of loss of traction. all you need to do is let a rearward roll start, lock the handlebars full left or right and presto, within one wheel rotation you're sitting perpendicular to the slope, safe as houses, ready to pull away and go back the way you came.

And on the subject of cost. As usual, people with absolutely no idea what they're talking about claim rip off. Yes, you're right its a lot. But sadly once your life is F*d you're stuck in a system where anything mobility or disability costs eye watering sums. If i wanted to buy the manual chair the nhs gave me it'd be over 2K. From injury onwards we're in a sh*t sandwich where any decision we get to make is to choose the least worst from a choice of awful to terrible. And be charged thousands for it. i could design a better Batec, but its a tiny market, no wonder they cost so much but i cant help think its taking the p*ss. It'll change. The e-bike revolution will bring out plenty rivals and at that price they'll vanish.

BTW the only off road elec bike/chair is 14K. an elec standing chair is 15k. The disabled are getting ar*e f*ked every day of our miserable lives while we sell golden passports to crooked oligarchs.


'Austerity' is good for us. No, it's good for those that are telling us to accept it.

Bit of a rant, still i get so little pleasure these days.

Paulwatson47

I have had same issues with a batec rapid.
Rang to speak to salesman on numerous occasions, since Dec 2018.
Unfortunately he didn't answer my call or return any calls to help me.
An office staff member suggested I spend £199 on extra weights, which might cure problem.
After becoming frustrated with after sales & lack of contact.
I asked for a refund, as it will not do what I was told it would.
Unfortunately they refused, saying I need training.
They don't know me.
I have rode motorcycles ( both on road & off road motorcycles) go karts & electric mobility scooters. In the past.
Issues are wheel spinning, loss of power & grip on a wheelchair accessible route in lake district. Yet cheaper electric mobility scooters managed without any problems.

forgotmyname

Paulwatson47 wrote: »

I have had same issues with a batec rapid.
Rang to speak to salesman on numerous occasions, since Dec 2018.
Unfortunately he didn't answer my call or return any calls to help me.
An office staff member suggested I spend £199 on extra weights, which might cure problem.
After becoming frustrated with after sales & lack of contact.
I asked for a refund, as it will not do what I was told it would.
Unfortunately they refused, saying I need training.
They don't know me.
I have rode motorcycles ( both on road & off road motorcycles) go karts & electric mobility scooters. In the past.
Issues are wheel spinning, loss of power & grip on a wheelchair accessible route in lake district. Yet cheaper electric mobility scooters managed without any problems.

How many front wheel drive motorcycles have you ridden? Whats the traction like on the front wheel when its off the ground?

Single wheel drive with little weight on it compared to 2 wheel drive with 90%+ of the weight on them? Obvious the single wheel will struggle way before twin rear drive.

The user should assess the situation before attempting any rough terrain.

Sounds like a silly idea for anything other than a trip to the local shops.

knfruitbat

I have seen the same branded bottle holders marketed for bicycles and wheelchairs, but the wheelchair price is 3 or 4 times more.
A branded cushion in a mobility shop for £70 that is available on Amazon, Tesco or Argos for around £20 delivered. My mobility scooter (can only use one arm so manual chair not an option, and powerchair for going out was a fortune) cost me about £900 from a local shop the other branch of the same shop wanted £350 more as they don't have competition on the same high street.
Anyone want to design a scooter that is under 1m to meet bus regulations (for scooters, wheelchairs get extra 20cm) and can be driven around all day range 15m+, then thrown in a car boot will make a fortune if they don't put a silly price tag on it. Currently have mobility scooter for long distances and outside, powerchair for short trips and public transport (but rubbish for kerbs and easily tips) and an attendant wheelchair when everything else fails and I have someone to push me. Would love one solution.
Disabled and the elderly are being totally ripped off every day just far easier to know with the power of the internet.