9 year old fine re sale of car

julie777

We sold a car in 2009 and just had a £250 fine for not sending off the V5 change of keeper document.

Naturally we are not inclined to pay it. My husband has had about 20 different cars and never forgot on any other sale so it was presumably lost in the post.

We moved house after that but should have got all mail for about 10 weeks. Would they have written to us?

I see these days the fine is only £35. Do they escalate that over time?

If they found our current address from name and date of birth now - why couldn't they have done that 9 years ago?

Hubby has to go to court to make some sort of declaration on oath.
Lets hope that will be the end of it.

Anyone else had this issue?

[Deleted User]

Once something is posted they deem it served so likewise, tell them you posted it to them 9 years ago and you'll see them in court.

Car_54

They would have written to you when/if they received the slip. The V5c tells you quite clearly that if you haven't received an acknowledgement within 3/4 weeks you must contact DVLA. It appears your husband didn't.

His statutory declaration will cancel the fine, and effectively start the whole court process again.

TooManyPoints

Once something is posted they deem it served so likewise, tell them you posted it to them 9 years ago and you'll see them in court.

Alas the "presumption of service" which is written into parts of the Road Traffic Act and the Road Traffic Offenders' Act" only applies to specifically mentioned documents sent by the authoriies to motorists in connection with motoring allegations. It does not work in reverse.

However, your husband has probably been advised to make a "statutory Declaration". This is to swear that he knew nothing of the proceedings that led to the fine. This nullifies the original action and whilst it may not be the end of the matter it means he will only be liable to pay a fine equivalent to the amount he would have paid had he dealt with the matter immediately it arose.

Quentin

Deleted_User wrote: »

Once something is posted they deem it served so likewise, tell them you posted it to them 9 years ago and you'll see them in court.

No!!!

Never good advice to tell someone to lie to the court!!

Op, follow the advice you've been given in #3 & #4

George_Michael

TooManyPoints wrote: »

Alas the "presumption of service" which is written into parts of the Road Traffic Act and the Road Traffic Offenders' Act" only applies to specifically mentioned documents sent by the authoriies to motorists in connection with motoring allegations. It does not work in reverse.

What you mention may not work in reverse but there is no reason why S7 of the interpretations act 1978 wouldn't cover the motorist as well as the DVLA.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30/section/7

7
References to service by post.
Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

As the The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations require you to deliver the relevant part of the V5c document to the DVLA, I can't see any logical or legal reason why it wouldn't fall under this interpretations act definitions.

TooManyPoints

"As the The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations require you to deliver the relevant part of the V5c document to the DVLA, I can't see any logical or legal reason why it wouldn't fall under this interpretations act definitions."

Indeed not. So long as he has proof of posting which, even if he had it nine years ago, he probably hasn't got now. The alternative would be to persuade a court, by means of his own testimony, that he "properly addressed, pre-paid and posted" the required document. Might be worth a try.But the court may wonder why enquiries were not made when the usual acknowledgement was not received, especially as he was said to have received his post for ten weeks after moving.

Car_54

George_Michael wrote: »

What you mention may not work in reverse but there is no reason why S7 of the interpretations act 1978 wouldn't cover the motorist as well as the DVLA.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30/section/7


As the The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations require you to deliver the relevant part of the V5c document to the DVLA, I can't see any logical or legal reason why it wouldn't fall under this interpretations act definitions.

One reason is that the relevant clause of the Interpretation Act applies to an "Act". The Regulations are subordinate legislation, not an Act.

[Deleted User]

Quentin wrote: »

No!!!

Never good advice to tell someone to lie to the court!!

Op, follow the advice you've been given in #3 & #4

Who said anything about lies? OP said out of 20 cars docs have always been sent off.

julie777

But the court may wonder why enquiries were not made when the usual acknowledgement was not received, especially as he was said to have received his post for ten weeks after moving.[/QUOTE]

The clerk in court showed him online a V5 which says that after selling and sending the document you must also chase it up if confirmation is not received.

For that reason he was moved to change his plea to guilty and was fined £35 in total in line with fines in 2009.

Personally I do not think that the DVLA always SENT confirmations.
If anyone knows when that began I'd be interested to know. It wasn't something we could prove in court so had to let it go.

molerat

julie777 wrote: »

But the court may wonder why enquiries were not made when the usual acknowledgement was not received, especially as he was said to have received his post for ten weeks after moving.

The clerk in court showed him online a V5 which says that after selling and sending the document you must also chase it up if confirmation is not received.

For that reason he was moved to change his plea to guilty and was fined £35 in total in line with fines in 2009.

Personally I do not think that the DVLA always SENT confirmations.
If anyone knows when that began I'd be interested to know. It wasn't something we could prove in court so had to let it go.

I have got confirmation slips in my files from 2007 and 2015 stating I am no longer the registered keeper so it has been the case for me. I have also got the proofs of posting for the V5s. A bit anal I know