Is it OK to change a part of the template that doesn't apply?

K_Parking

Hi,

As the Registered Keeper of a vehicle I have received a Parking Charge Notice from Britannia Parking, and I'm about to submit an appeal as per the template in the Newbies' thread.

However I have a few queries, and the 28 days is about to run out because it's taken almost three weeks to get posting access to the forum. (Turns out my ISP was marking the activation emails as Junk although I chose not to set up any Junk rules!) If anyone can help quickly I would be very grateful.

[The driver made a purchase in the shop concerned during the parking period and the timings as laid out in the PCN are not disputed. The photos are so tightly cropped they could have been taken anywhere. I can't find anything in the letter about transfer of liability to keeper after 28 days which as I understand it is good.]

(1) I have no idea what the phrase "which is fully distinguished" means and I'm worried about setting off a legal process using terms I don't understand. I haven't been able to find it anywhere via Google.

(2) Some of the language used in the template seems rather emotive and haranguing. Is there a particular purpose to including all of this? For example, I'm worried they're going to start asking for proof of how they have been "predatory and aggressive". All they've done so far is send me a letter - obviously the whole thing has been a bit of a shock but I'm very nervous of winding them up unnecessarily. (After all, they know where I live.)

(3) I can't make a complaint to the landowner or ask them to cancel the fine, as they have already told me in the shop they have been instructed not to accept these letters from customers "because of Data Protection" (even though it's MY data on the letter?). So should I just delete that paragraph?


Also, I understand not naming the driver, but the driver paid in the shop by card - doesn't that mean they can just ask the shop who it was? (I have blurred the card number, and the items purchased, on the scan of the receipt.)

By the way Customer Services in the shop were unable to give me, or direct me to, a copy of the T&Cs, and they told me even staff get fined if they use the car park more than four days a week!

Many thanks in advance for any help.

K

Quentin

Send the appeal as is


It's tried and tested and designed to get you a popla code

K_Parking

Thanks for the fast response! But if I say in the letter I'm complaining to the landowner and then I don't - because they've already told me they won't accept it - isn't that going to make me look like I'm lying? And what if they start phoning me and challenging things I'm saying in the letter that I don't even understand?

The driver is not a warrior type at all - just a customer who goes in that shop every day and genuinely had no idea there were cameras and penalties. They thought if ever they did go over the time by mistake it would simply be a matter of explaining to the parking attendant that they had genuinely been in the shop.

fisherjim

K_Parking wrote: »

Thanks for the fast response! But if I say in the letter I'm complaining to the landowner and then I don't - because they've already told me they won't accept it - isn't that going to make me look like I'm lying? And what if they start phoning me and challenging things I'm saying in the letter that I don't even understand?

The driver is not a warrior type at all - just a customer who goes in that shop every day and genuinely had no idea there were cameras and penalties. They thought if ever they did go over the time by mistake it would simply be a matter of explaining to the parking attendant that they had genuinely been in the shop.

For goodness sake stop overthinking this, how are they going to phone you unless you stupidly give them your phone number, and all over this forum it tells you never to speak to them or debt collectors.

You are thinking PPC's are reasonable people they are not, they won't be speaking to the landowner, it is handled by office bods who are told to reject everything they are not interested in what you say, you are not grasping this at all, it is not a fine either!

KeithP

K_Parking wrote: »

Also, I understand not naming the driver, but the driver paid in the shop by card - doesn't that mean they can just ask the shop who it was? (I have blurred the card number, and the items purchased, on the scan of the receipt.)

How many seats in your car?
Is it not possible that another occupant of the car made a purchase in the shop?
Use your imagination.

As Quentin says, send the template appeal just as it is.

The driver is not a warrior type at all...

Remember, they only know who the keeper is.
They have absolutely no idea who the driver is. Keep it that way.

Who owns the car park?
You need to explain to them that you'll no longer be able to shop there because parking is so expensive. Show them all your receipts - you shop there every day. Tell them that all your family and friends have been warned too.
Have you spoken to the shop manager?
If they won't listen locally, go to head office - the CEO even.
What is the name of the shop?

Fruitcake

It matters not what you put in the appeal, it will be rejected (except by one or two PPCs who recognise the template and know they aren't smart enough to win.)

The point of the template is that it is a one size fits all, and doesn't give away the driver's details. Missing bits out is up to you, but they are all there for a reason.

If you omit something you don't understand, it may be a really significant point that you might need to rely on later. Your choice, but the regulars here won't advise tinkering with something that isn't broken.

In the case of Britannia, you want a PoPLA code. The template will get you one. If/when the appeal is rejected, you will need to construct a draft appeal using the template points from post 3 of the NEWBIES then post it here for checking before you submit it.

Finally, fully distinguished from means, very different, not the same as, completely opposite, don't bother using Beavis cos it don't apply.

K_Parking

fisherjim wrote: »

For goodness sake stop overthinking this

Sorry, "overthinking things" is apparently just how my brain works. I have no idea how to work out the boundary between thinking and "overthinking" !

fisherjim wrote: »

how are they going to phone you unless you stupidly give them your phone number

They have my name and address! It would take them ten seconds to get my number from Directory Enquiries.

fisherjim wrote: »

You are thinking PPC's are reasonable people they are not

And that's exactly why I'm frightened about all this. With unreasonable people there is no way of understanding how they're going to react.

Thanks very much for replying, I appreciate your taking the time.

The_Deep

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.

K_Parking

KeithP wrote: »

Is it not possible that another occupant of the car made a purchase in the shop? Use your imagination.

That genuinely never occurred to me - I obviously don't have any!

KeithP wrote: »

What is the name of the shop?

It's Waitrose; people seem to think they're soft but actually they're quite unpleasant and aggressive nowadays, from what the shop staff tell me.

Fruitcake wrote: »

It matters not what you put in the appeal, it will be rejected... If you omit something you don't understand, it may be a really significant point that you might need to rely on later.

Finally, fully distinguished from means, very different, not the same as, completely opposite, don't bother using Beavis cos it don't apply.

Thanks for replying, that's very clear now!

The_Deep wrote: »

This is an entirely unregulated industry ...With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.

Thanks for replying, I appreciate your taking the time!

Fruitcake

K_Parking wrote: »

Sorry, "overthinking things" is apparently just how my brain works. I have no idea how to work out the boundary between thinking and "overthinking" !



They have my name and address! It would take them ten seconds to get my number from Directory Enquiries.



And that's exactly why I'm frightened about all this. With unreasonable people there is no way of understanding how they're going to react.

Thanks very much for replying, I appreciate your taking the time.

They have the name and address of The Keeper. They do not have the name and address of The Driver unless someone is stupid enough to tell them.

K_Parking

Fruitcake wrote: »

They have the name and address of The Keeper. They do not have the name and address of The Driver unless someone is stupid enough to tell them.

But that's my point - I am the Keeper, I am the person they've sent the letter to, I am the person whose phone number they could get in ten seconds, and I am the person who would end up answering the phone to them. Obviously I wouldn't give them any information over the phone - or indeed at all - but I've never been involved in anything like this before and I'm just nervous about it.