Boundary dispute with neighbour

Davesnave

Annie35 wrote: »

No this is spu 's thread!

You're 100% right.


Sorry, someone hi-jacked this thread earlier. I've deleted my post and slapped myself for not checking more carefully.

DCFC79

Davesnave wrote: »

You're 100% right.


Sorry, someone hi-jacked this thread earlier. I've deleted my post and slapped myself for not checking more carefully.

Its ok you are forgiven.

Davesnave

spu98amj wrote: »

Hello again,


Thanks for all the response regarding my and other issues like this.

I have had another confrontation from my neighbours again today. They are now threatening a court case about the boundary. So i guess we will now have to wait for them to send us their paperwork from whatever solicitor they have got. So they have accepted they can't just take the fence down, which is progress, of a sort.
But i would like to know for sure is, if by buying a property and signing the contract to buy a property are you signing off on the positoin of your boundarys? No, because as the Land Registry rep explained, neither where the boundary is shown on the plan, or where it is in reality, always defines exactly where it is.
That's something that ultimately neighbours must agree on between themselves, or have the matter decided by a court.

If this is true all i will need to do is proove the fence I have is in the same position as the old fence and the old fence was in position at the time he purchased the house. This would be your stance if you wanted to claim adverse possession. In that case, you'd be saying you agree the fence has been in the wrong place for so long, you've gained legal possession of the extra land it encloses.

They still dont believe the photos are true, i have one with my wife aged 13ish and she is now in her 30s as well as photos of the old and new fence position. Surely they dont have a leg to stand on. Do they? Possibly not, but it would probably need someone like a specialist surveyor to assess the weight of evidence shown in photographs. After all, if the neighbour is doubtful about the photos, could others not also question what they show? Are you going to employ a land surveyor?
I am also sure they have no proof the fence i have recenly put up (2 years ago) is further in their garden than the old fence. Fine, but if that's what's in their heads, you have the same problem as you do with the photos.
It all stems from a badly installed boiler anyway! Someone kinked the old cast iron downpipe further onto my wall to make room for the new boiler. This meant there was no room for a higher fence to be installed, apart from thier side of the part wall! Again, you seem to be suggesting this badly installed boiler and the solution agreed at the time has given you rights acquired over time. i.e. adverse possession.

Sorry last question, could any corgi registered person confirm that a boiler flue has to be further than 300mm from the party wall? What time are we talking about exactly? Regulations change over time. Even the names of organisations change. There are no Corgi registered fitters now; they're referred to as Gas Safe Engineers
Thanks again


Hope someone can help!

As I see it, what the Land Registry Rep said is most relevant here:
"The key is what do you both want and how far are you prepared to go to achieve it?"


On the face of it, you are putting forward a strong case for adverse possession, so the other thing the LR Rep said is particularly pertinent:


"Experience shows that a dispute is rarely any good to either neighbour on a very wide range of levels."

While this dispute rumbles on, neither party will be in a good place emotionally, or to sell their property, should the need arise. You both have to consider carefully and objectively what the small piece of land is really worth.

HampshireH

Just out of interest will you also be asking then to adjust their downpipe at the same time so it doesnt cross your land?

loveka

Yes, what the Land Registry person said.

On paper yes, you look at the boundary on the plan and then on the ground. It says you agree they match on the form.

However, this doesn't stop legal action taking place. I'm not sure why this happens, as 'buyer beware' is quoted on every aspect of house buying.

You case is very similar to mine. We had sworn statements, photographs, everything. Our solicitor said we were 99% sure of winning in court.

However, he said that sometimes judges in boundary disputes do not award costs. So I potentially could have won my land, but had to pay my own costs which may have been up to £30k.

Now remember, your neighbour would be taking this risk too. It is a game of cat and mouse and it is not fair. But that is the way the law operates, because as said above, there is an assumption that you have to work this out between you BECAUSE the plans are not accurate.

In the end we split the land (4 inches each) and my garden was destroyed. He actually took my plants and put them in his garden because they had been 'trespassing'!

Anyhow, we have moved now. We had to declare the dispute and it was fine. We got the neighbour to sign a declaration that he was now happy with all the boundaries and there would be no further disputes.

It was hell. With moving costs and all the surveyor and solicitor fees it has probably cost us around £20k.

You could still go for adverse possession though. Have you posted on garden law? They are very helpful.

Do you have legal cover on your home insurance? Check and if so give them a ring.

Ms_Chocaholic

Is it worth all the stress for 12 inches

If it were me I'd say to the neighbour that if he moves the fence to a line agreed by you both (ie the 12 inch point) I'd do that. Life's too short.

spu98amj

They have suggested they could move it for us but then bill us for the money!



I have no problem with them paying someone i trust to move it and relay the patio/path.



They will have full rights over the position of the downpipe once it is on their side. I wont allow it to be on my wall though.


If they are set on using solicitors we will state why it was placed in that position. I cant understand what proof they have of where the fence should be. We have the photos of why the fence is where it is. I havent shown any surveyor them yet but I will try to find someone who could give adivce on the validity of them.



I do get worried for my wife as they do keep comfronting her with some aggression. The owner (who has let his daughter live there) does not want to speak to me anymore after my insistance of seeing proof!


I like to think any solicitor would advise them to get proof before progressing anything. I worry they will find someone to write a letter to us but I am unsure of what to do when / if they do anything.



I am aware my home insurance does provide a legal helpline so I will use them if needed.

moneyistooshorttomention

It's odd the way they pick on your wife (ie female) and not you (ie male). Hmmmm....:cool:

She's got two choices:
- Learn to change her attitude and be as "strong" etc as I'm guessing you are being with them
OR
- just literally walk away from them the second they glare or comment to her

It's ingrained in some of us to "be polite" and listen to someone that wants to speak to us - and, if she's been brought up to be polite, then it's not an easy thing to do to "blank and walk" - but it does work.

Probably the second option is the most realistic.

spu98amj

[FONT=&quot]Well it finally happened![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We received a letter from a solicitor, stating we have erected a new fence in a different location to the old fence. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]They also state Pursuant to Section 38(1) of the Law of Property act 1925, party walls would be divided in half. Given that the title plans for the properties show the boundary runs in a straight line through the party wall, the legal boundary separating the properties would line up with the middle of the party wall separating the dwellings. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I gather they are assuming the fence is meant to line up with the party wall. But from the old unscaled title plan available for our and his property there is not much to go on from them. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Or is there?[/FONT]

They also claim my wife had confirmed we would move the fence in July! She said no such statement.

They state as a result of the “move” of the fence their boiler flu is on our side of the fence. This was always the case as it was that flu that caused the fence to be positioned there in the first place!
They are going to take it to court if we refuse to relocate the fence.

I keep thinking about doing nothing as we have proof that the new fence is in the same position as the old one. With that proof and images of why it was positioned towards his property about 20 years ago. A change to the guttering down pipe to accommodate the old owners new boiler meant a wooden fence had to be positioned the other side of the downpipe as it enters the ground.

Should I ignore the letter that was not signed for?
Should I seek my own solicitor? Fight back with adverse possession?


It’s all down to who is going to pay for the fence move if it gets moved at all. We will live with the fence in the position he wants but we don’t want to pay for it.

Any advice on this would be greatly received.

Thanks

AndyTails

You already know their arguments, they already know yours. Further discussion is pointless.

You can either agree to move the fence, or wait and see if they actually take you to court. Your neighbour has likely paid relatively little to the solicitor for the letter; they would have to pay a lot more for the solicitor to represent them in court.

If it goes to court, just represent yourself. You have a fair understanding of the law from this thread, and it's a damn sight cheaper than paying for a lawyer yourself.

Arguing about the plan is pointless: you know the fence should be directly on the party wall. But after the passage of time, which you can prove with your photograph, adverse possession is likely.

There's not really any other advice you can be given which hasn't been covered in this thread already.