What happens when the Banks lie?

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I've had experience before with HSBC lying and making false declarations to authorities and the Financial Ombudsman. Now I am re-claiming PPI, they're doing it again.

First, they claimed to the Ombudsman I never had any sort of bank account with them, despite banking with them for over 10 years.
Then when I spent hours digging out old paperwork I found an account number, they suddenly remembered I did.
Then they denied to the Ombudsman I had any sort of loan with them.
Then after the Ombudsman pushed and pushed after I had to push them, HSBC confessed I did.
Now we're at the stage where HSBC are lying again and denying I ever paid PPI at all. Despite me making payments every month for years, from one HSBC account to them.

I suppose I have two questions.
First, what can we claimants do when the banks lie and don't check their systems properly?
Second, isnt' the whole PPI reclaiming system fundamentally messed up when the Ombudsman goes running to the very bank that messed up in the first place, and simply takes their word every time when they lie and give them false information? They can only ask HSBC to look at systems which HSBC decides to tell them about in the first place, so what about all the systems they haven't told the Ombdusman about? Apparently we're not allowed to demand they check those.

Why isn't there an independent investigator into PPI who can demand access HSBC's real records?
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 26,612 Forumite
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    Why don't you take them to court? They are obviously acting illegally...
  • Nearlyold
    Nearlyold Posts: 2,300 Forumite
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    Now we're at the stage where HSBC are lying again and denying I ever paid PPI at all. Despite me making payments every month for years, from one HSBC account to them.

    Was this a separate payment for insurance or part of the loan payment? Did the length of time you made these payments coincide with the term of the loan?
  • Landy11
    Landy11 Posts: 6 Forumite
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    Good question Nearlyold. I was told at the very last minute I would have to pay PPI, taken into a room, given a form to sign and told what the monthly payments would be. All that was separate in administrative terms to the loan agreement which I was then taken back into the original room, to sign. As I remember, I set up a DD/Standing Order to pay these amounts. I remember these amounts appearing separately on my bank account statements. HSBC is denying any of the above happened or existed.
  • Nearlyold
    Nearlyold Posts: 2,300 Forumite
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    If it was a completely separate payment there is a good possibility it wasn't PPI but some other type of insurance. Do you still have any of the paperwork/statments? How long ago was this?
  • Landy11
    Landy11 Posts: 6 Forumite
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    I am sure they called it payment protection at the time, I remember the phrase, but I am really interested in your questions. I had such a nightmare of a time with HSBC that I think (not 100% sure) I binned the paperwork after some years to have a home and desk that was HSBC-corruptness-free at last.
  • Nasqueron
    Nasqueron Posts: 8,998 Forumite
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    The front line staff and perhaps even the PPI team don't always have access to old systems and without the account number almost certainly couldn't have found it, they made a mistake and have corrected it now you have given them the information to find the account. They didn't lie, they simply presented the information available to them.
  • Nearlyold
    Nearlyold Posts: 2,300 Forumite
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    Sorry but you haven't said when this was. Have you ever sent them an SAR?
  • dunstonh
    dunstonh Posts: 116,597 Forumite
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    What happens when the Banks lie?

    If its found to be a widespread issue then there are consequences. If it was an error limited to one or two cases then they are required to put it right.
    First, what can we claimants do when the banks lie and don't check their systems properly?
    Not all data is stored on systems that can easily find the info. Often old data is stored under account number and not name. Or archived off systems on microfiche.

    This is why they often rely on old statements or copies of info to get that policy number that allows them to check older data records.
    Why isn't there an independent investigator into PPI who can demand access HSBC's real records?

    Because there is no law that allows it. However, the FOS does report issues to the FCA where they feel a firm has done wrong (beyond the complaint).
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • Landy11
    Landy11 Posts: 6 Forumite
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    The bank needs to answer thte Financial Ombudsman with accurate and correct information. If the PPI team " don't always have access to old systems" then either this PPI reclaiming process is not set up correctly or the PPI team need to communicate with other parts of their bank to find the answer. They should not just go back to the Financial Ombudsman with "no, can't see it, this never happened".

    "they made a mistake and have corrected it now" No, the bank falsely stated I had never banked with them and then discovered I did. Then they falsey stated I didn't have any sort of loan, and - despite not being given any further information from myself - upon pushback by the Financial Ombudsman to have a proper look, then discovered I did. Why didn't they do a proper look in the first place - this is my point.
  • Landy11
    Landy11 Posts: 6 Forumite
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    The loan was taken out about 14 years ago, and payments were still being made 5 years ago when it was then paid off. PPI payments were paid every single month from start to finish. What is a SAR please Nearlyold?
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