Electricity meter not recording usage - help!

Ed_Winchester_2

I moved into this property at the beginning of February, and after a week or so thought I'd get some meter readings from the electricity meter to see how much power I'd used.

I noticed then that the meter readings given to me by the letting agent when I got the keys were identical.

Being a conscientious chap, I called the incumbent supplier, Spark, who told me that they are unable to repair or replace this meter because they aren't able to get hold of new ones as it's a SuperTariff meter which is discontinued. They said they could possibly replace the meter with a single rate meter, but I would have to get an electrician to confirm the property could handle this.

They also told me that I would be billed at an estimated usage for this type of property, and that I am welcome to keep paying an estimated bill every month. I know, so kind.

My questions are:

1) are they not obliged by law to send someone to check this meter? A Meter Determination, I believe it's called?
2) are they allowed to bill me at an estimated rate when they know there's no way they can measure my usage any more than I can? It's not like I'm being difficult and not allowing them to read the meter - the thing is broken.

I'm really unsure as to what I'm supposed to do. All I want is to pay for the electricity I'm using, and not being ripped off. I don't think that's a lot to ask.

wavelets

Ed_Winchester wrote: »

I moved into this property at the beginning of February, and after a week or so thought I'd get some meter readings from the electricity meter to see how much power I'd used.

I noticed then that the meter readings given to me by the letting agent when I got the keys were identical.

Being a conscientious chap, I called the incumbent supplier, Spark, who told me that they are unable to repair or replace this meter because they aren't able to get hold of new ones as it's a SuperTariff meter which is discontinued. They said they could possibly replace the meter with a single rate meter, but I would have to get an electrician to confirm the property could handle this.

They also told me that I would be billed at an estimated usage for this type of property, and that I am welcome to keep paying an estimated bill every month. I know, so kind.

My questions are:

1) are they not obliged by law to send someone to check this meter? A Meter Determination, I believe it's called?
2) are they allowed to bill me at an estimated rate when they know there's no way they can measure my usage any more than I can? It's not like I'm being difficult and not allowing them to read the meter - the thing is broken.

I'm really unsure as to what I'm supposed to do. All I want is to pay for the electricity I'm using, and not being ripped off. I don't think that's a lot to ask.

Only nPower are obligated to continue to serve their customers with this legacy tariff.

Unfortunately, you are no longer supplied by nPower, and I've no idea if they will accept new customers onto this lagacy tariff (most won't)

Contact your landlord, and tell him he has an expensive problem to get sorted out. You'll probably have to have a universal meter fitted now.
The advantage of that to you will you will then be able to switch to any generally available supplier and tariff compatible with that type of meter.

Consider whether you want a dual rate(E7) meter or a single rate one.

Ed_Winchester_2

When you say "an expensive problem", in what way is it expensive, and for whom?

wavelets

Ed_Winchester wrote: »

When you say "an expensive problem", in what way is it expensive, and for whom?

expensive
!!!618;k!!!712;sp!!!603;ns!!!618;v,!!!603;k!!!712;sp!!!603;ns!!!618;v/
adjective
adjective: expensive
costing a lot of money.

As for whom, the clue is in the previous reponse I have you

i.e.
"Contact your landlord, and tell him he has an expensive problem to get sorted out."

Ed_Winchester_2

I didn't ask what expensive meant, did I?

I asked in what WAY is it expensive? A new meter isn't my landlord's problem, that's for the energy company to fix. Equally, I can't and won't ask the landlord to pick up the excessive energy bills being generated while I get this resolved.

So rather than being sarcastic, perhaps you could elaborate on your previous comment? You took the time to write an otherwise informative post, so hopefully you'll be good enough to explain what you meant.

D_M_E

Is the property a flat?

Are you renting?

If a flat, are any of the other flats in the same building unoccupied?

As for being supplied by Spark, did the agents switch the property to Spark from for example Npower?

I would question whether the agents have the authority to switch the supplier(s) since they are not the occupiers and never had been, as far as I know only the owner or the occupier can change supplier - if the agent can change supplier what is to prevent anyone from swapping the supplier at any property?

Maybe a call to the previous supplier - if you can find out who it was - invoking the Erroneous Transfer policy might solve your problem.

House_Martin

are you up in Scotland with some complex 3 rate eco 10 type meter. I find it odd that they can t come up with an acceptable meter to replace the old one
I m a meter reader and I have many people on my rounds who love an estimated electricity bill with stopped meters and would like to keep them that way..
They usually have a blank screen electric meter and gas central heating.
Suppliers can t be bothered to change them. Some of the cuatomers have admitted to me that they can heat their homes using electricity saving the expensive gas bill and they have had blank screens for years.I keep seeing the same people every quarter.
They are free to use as much electricity as they want because its unmetered. No more hanging washing out, the drier does it., dishwasher and washer on constantly A few three kilowatt heaters heat the house just as well as GCH
They like the unmetered electricity so much they make sure not to answer the door if a meter fitter knocks.
There is nt a "law " to force the supplier to read a meter but suppliers are obliged to make a reading as and when they deem it necessary .
I find many stopped electric meters but they are all old type analogue meters . Digital meters usually just lose the readings by going blank screen.
However the digital meters can be internally bypassed and then the meter would keep the same reading.This could have happened with the OP s meter. The little red light would just show "on " all the time and not pulse on and off when using appliances
If the metal seal is missing from the lower cover that also could point to someone tampering with the meter
The analogue meters can be restarted by a hefty thump to the side of the meter.
Sangamo Weston meters are the ones which stick

Ed_Winchester_2

D_M_E wrote: »

Is the property a flat?

Are you renting?

If a flat, are any of the other flats in the same building unoccupied?

As for being supplied by Spark, did the agents switch the property to Spark from for example Npower?

I would question whether the agents have the authority to switch the supplier(s) since they are not the occupiers and never had been, as far as I know only the owner or the occupier can change supplier - if the agent can change supplier what is to prevent anyone from swapping the supplier at any property?

Maybe a call to the previous supplier - if you can find out who it was - invoking the Erroneous Transfer policy might solve your problem.

It is a flat yes, there are five other properties and all appear to be occupied.

I believe the previous tenant also had Spark as I had a couple of letters arrive for them shortly after I moved, which I sent back as "not known at this address". I will double check with the agent and the landlord though to see what they can tell me.

House_Martin wrote: »

are you up in Scotland with some complex 3 rate eco 10 type meter. I find it odd that they can t come up with an acceptable meter to replace the old one
I m a meter reader and I have many people on my rounds who love an estimated electricity bill with stopped meters and would like to keep them that way..
They usually have a blank screen electric meter and gas central heating.
Suppliers can t be bothered to change them. Some of the cuatomers have admitted to me that they can heat their homes using electricity saving the expensive gas bill and they have had blank screens for years.I keep seeing the same people every quarter.
They are free to use as much electricity as they want because its unmetered. No more hanging washing out, the drier does it., dishwasher and washer on constantly A few three kilowatt heaters heat the house just as well as GCH
They like the unmetered electricity so much they make sure not to answer the door if a meter fitter knocks.
There is nt a "law " to force the supplier to read a meter but suppliers are obliged to make a reading as and when they deem it necessary .
I find many stopped electric meters but they are all old type analogue meters . Digital meters usually just lose the readings by going blank screen.
However the digital meters can be internally bypassed and then the meter would keep the same reading.This could have happened with the OP s meter. The little red light would just show "on " all the time and not pulse on and off when using appliances
If the metal seal is missing from the lower cover that also could point to someone tampering with the meter
The analogue meters can be restarted by a hefty thump to the side of the meter.
Sangamo Weston meters are the ones which stick

I'm in the NE postcode area, Spark tell me it's a Economy 10 meter which is discontinued and therefore they cannot/will not send someone to look at it.

Funny thing is it's not an analogue meter; it's digital. And it's displaying readings, they just haven't changed since 3rd February. The metal seals (over screws holding the cover on) are intact as far as I can see.

D_M_E

OK, it's a flat5 and no problems with a switch to Spark, they appear to be the suppliers used by the previous occupiers.

Is the meter in close proximity to the meters for the other flats and if so, have you checked that what you think is your meter actually is the one supplying your flat?

Have you checked the meter serial number matches the one one the bill?

Note that the following test may not work if the meter is faulty but is worth doing anyway just to be sure:

To check if it's the correct meter, turn everything off then go and look at the meters.
If they are digital they will probably be a red flashing light on them which will hardly be flashing with no power being used - are any of them showing this?

Next, go and fill a kettle and turn it on then go back and look at the meters while the kettle is boiling - the one with the now rapidly flashing light should be yours, particularly if it stops when the kettle turns itself off.

Carrot007

Ed_Winchester wrote: »

Spark tell me it's a Economy 10 meter which is discontinued and therefore they cannot/will not send someone to look at it.

You said it was Supertarrif at first.

If so it is not E10. but a 4 rate thing using 2 mpans and 1 or 2 meters (2 is a really old sertup). (one reg is an error reg and should not move).

It is only in the NEEB area (though most of the UK has slightly differently named similar tarrifs). And only supported by npower though their being who owns the old NEEB supplier these days.

If it is supertarrif then the supplier should never have been changed, and you need to beg npower to take you back (they are not obliged).

If it is e10 it is similarly legacy but you will be being billed as e7 by the other supplier (though will get more OP hours). They should replace this for an e7 meter thoughyou will get less hours OP.

Simple way to tell is is it 4 reads (maybe over 2 meters), if so super tarrif. Is it 2 reads, then probably e10.

You are unlikely to get someone who understands supertarrif at spark and will find it hard at power. Such is the problem with legacy tarrifs.

Either way changing the meter to something else will require work on the consumer's side by their own electrician. Which falls down to your landlord. Who should persue whoever changed suppliers really! (could argue the supplier should have checked more and not taken it over too).

Anyway. 2 or 4 reads?

Ed_Winchester_2

D_M_E wrote: »

OK, it's a flat5 and no problems with a switch to Spark, they appear to be the suppliers used by the previous occupiers.

Is the meter in close proximity to the meters for the other flats and if so, have you checked that what you think is your meter actually is the one supplying your flat?

Have you checked the meter serial number matches the one one the bill?

Note that the following test may not work if the meter is faulty but is worth doing anyway just to be sure:

To check if it's the correct meter, turn everything off then go and look at the meters.
If they are digital they will probably be a red flashing light on them which will hardly be flashing with no power being used - are any of them showing this?

Next, go and fill a kettle and turn it on then go back and look at the meters while the kettle is boiling - the one with the now rapidly flashing light should be yours, particularly if it stops when the kettle turns itself off.

I must admit I haven't checked the serial numbers - the meters are all in a cupboard on the ground floor, and there are numbers next to each. Worth checking though definitely. The one I THINK is mine has no lights on at all, I've never seen a light since day one.

Carrot007 wrote: »

You said it was Supertarrif at first.

If so it is not E10. but a 4 rate thing using 2 mpans and 1 or 2 meters (2 is a really old sertup). (one reg is an error reg and should not move).

It is only in the NEEB area (though most of the UK has slightly differently named similar tarrifs). And only supported by npower though their being who owns the old NEEB supplier these days.

If it is supertarrif then the supplier should never have been changed, and you need to beg npower to take you back (they are not obliged).

If it is e10 it is similarly legacy but you will be being billed as e7 by the other supplier (though will get more OP hours). They should replace this for an e7 meter thoughyou will get less hours OP.

Simple way to tell is is it 4 reads (maybe over 2 meters), if so super tarrif. Is it 2 reads, then probably e10.

You are unlikely to get someone who understands supertarrif at spark and will find it hard at power. Such is the problem with legacy tarrifs.

Either way changing the meter to something else will require work on the consumer's side by their own electrician. Which falls down to your landlord. Who should persue whoever changed suppliers really! (could argue the supplier should have checked more and not taken it over too).

Anyway. 2 or 4 reads?

You see my confusion... Spark said it was Economy 10, but EDF (who I contacted after hearing they dealt with Economy 10) told me it was actually this SuperTariff thing, which I'd never heard of before.

To answer your last question, it has 4 reads which are cycled through by pressing a blue button. One is zero (is that the error one you mention?) and the others have readings which have never changed since I've been there. The interesting thing is that there are a mixture of meter types in the cupboard; not all of the six properties in the building have this type of meter.

Would your advice first of all be to contact Npower to see if they'll take over the supply? Assume a faulty meter is something they would cover if they'd do so?

Failing that it will need a new meter but at my landlord's cost? Spark did offer to change the meter but said they'd need confirmation from an electrician/the landlord that the property would support an Economy 7 or standard meter.

Is that a fair summary?

By the way, thanks to both of you for your advice - I'm getting more sense here than I've had from any of the suppliers I've spoken with.