Outrageously high electricity bill.

Carrot007

CashStrapped wrote: »

It depends if the OP is describing what they mean by "two meters" correctly. It still sounds like some sort of E10/complex metering set-up, which the landlord has butchered.

Getting a single rate meter installed should not be any more of an issue.

As long as you make your landlord aware, this is something a tenant does have the right to request. If you explain that this could make your bills a lot cheaper, they may be willing to give the go-ahead.

Read #15, they even use the industry standard term of related meters. Not very ambiguous. But please OP confirm!

And in this case converting to a standard meter would:

Pros.
1. Only be charged one standing charge.

Cons:
1. Cost more to remove old meter as that is a logical disconection of a secondary mpan.
2. Require their own electrician to alter what was connected into the off peak coinsumer unit to the main consumer unit or more likely require a whole new consumer unit replacing them both.
3. Require some sort of timer/switch for the heating. Which there really should be anyway. (As I said OP, please confirm your day heating methods.
4. Require permission from the landlord as this is much more than a simple meter change. It is a change to the heating setup.
5. Probably much more.
6. Did I mention cost?

CashStrapped

Surely the main "Con" is that they can only heat the property at a completely inappropriate time. It also sounds like the underfloor heating is only active when the off-peak circuit activates. So they cannot use it during normal hours, not that they want to on the current peak tariff cost.

The only practical solution in my mind is to move to a single rate tariff, and appropriately time the underfloor heating. Using it at only the required times.

or

Convert back to an off-peak heating set-up with appropriate storage heaters.

- All the cons you list are for the landlord to grapple with. It needs to be explained to them that the current set-up is completely inappropriate and costly to run. They may refuse as you say, due to the extra costs involved but it is the most appropriate solution for the OP.

If the OP ultimately has no joy convincing the landlord, they need to consider the expense of staying in that property for the long term.

jk0

If the underfloor heating was installed decades ago it will be eminently suitable for off peak. They used to set the elements well down in the cement screed, so that the whole floor became a storage heater.

This has not been done lately, as it requires more than 7 hours of overnight charge. I'd have thought o/p's 12 hours would be about right.

CashStrapped

jk0 wrote: »

If the underfloor heating was installed decades ago it will be eminently suitable for off peak. They used to set the elements well down in the cement screed, so that the whole floor became a storage heater.

Indeed, this is a option to consider, hence I asked

"How have you coped during the day when your heat is mostly on at night?"

The OP seemed to suggest they were dissatisfied with the heating being on at night.

Good point though....

ZIgo123

Hi Cashtrapped,

This is really interesting, to reply:

1. It just gets cold during off times. Basically, by about 9pm it's very cool in the place during winter.
2. Perhaps there was at some point a storage heater in the place. I can't see where any have been taken out.
4. Yes that's right, it seems to come on only when that circuit is on. It doesn't have it's own timer unit (which would be preferable). It seems it is indeed on during all cheap rate times.
5. Would the electricity company take out the dual meters and put a new one in? E.g. a smart meter?

We're trying to get onto the landlord to see what can be done. Thanks for the above.

Carrot007

CashStrapped wrote: »

Surely the main "Con" is that they can only heat the property at a completely inappropriate time.

How is that a con of changing the meter, which was what I was saying ;-) Your solutions do seem the appropriate ones though.

Anyhow to add some thoughts.

The landlord is non compliant if they have not provided you heating you can control the time of. However a £10 fan/convector would be the minimum they need to do.

I am hopefully wrong but I suspect the landlord is a bodger and that is why it is set up this way and they will not want to pay to get it changed.

Carrot007

ZIgo123 wrote: »

1. It just gets cold during off times. Basically, by about 9pm it's very cool in the place during winter.
2. Perhaps there was at some point a storage heater in the place. I can't see where any have been taken out.
4. Yes that's right, it seems to come on only when that circuit is on. It doesn't have it's own timer unit (which would be preferable). It seems it is indeed on during all cheap rate times.
5. Would the electricity company take out the dual meters and put a new one in? E.g. a smart meter?

We're trying to get onto the landlord to see what can be done. Thanks for the above.

My thoughts.

1. So you are not using and heating during the times the off peak meter is running? Or are you using alternatives?

2. I would have thought so as the current setup makes no sense. Perhaps whoever did it did not realise this.

4. Any idea of the age of the heating? I would expect an on.off and something to set temperature at least for underfloor heating.

5. Yes, but not for free and with such a weird setup they would only do it if you paid for an electrician to alter your (landlords) side of things as it would need doing given the strange setup. (As otherwise they would be leaving you without heating).

Yes best to find out where the landlord stands on this but don't be suprised it they give you a £30 argos voucher to get some cheap heaters after you convince them of their responsibilities. Yes I am being pessamistic but I cannot see how they are unaware of the issue. maybe just not how bad it is. Or maybe they know of a hidden controller!

You can alwasy hope. Oh and you can at least turn the heating off at the consumer unit if you don't want it on all night, so there is that.

CashStrapped

lol @carrot007 I think we are getting our wires crossed

I meant it was a major con of keeping the meter......not changing it

But yes, we are on the same page...

ZIgo123

Hi @carrot007,

1. We don't use any other heating outside of those off-peak times.
4. It may be the same age as the block of flats, or not. The building is, I think, from the 70s.
5. Damn

Yeah well we've approached landlord, Not permitted to use plugin heaters in the flat due to contract. We're hoping the landlord will be accommodating, as otherwise come next winter it won't be feasible to remain in the flat. I don't think it's too unreasonable to want to control the heating we pay for.

CashStrapped

I would approach the landlord, but hit him/her with facts.

1) Show how much electricity the underfloor heating is using at night without the ability to time it or have any useful control over it.

2) Show that the underfloor heating is not storing any heat in the floor surface (if that is what it was designed to do) by taking the temperature in the morning and at points throughout the day. You have to show this pretty soon, as the average temperature starts to rise as we come into summer.

3) Show the cost of a single rate tariff and give an indication of how much this will cost on a single rate which will give you actual useful heat, when you need it, (compare to the last all electric flat you were in).

4) Re-iterate that the underfloor heating is not a storage heater and is not designed for off peak only heating.

5) Demonstrate how uncompetitive the tariff you have is due to the fact it is a related off-peak meter from which you cannot switch supplier. Write the tariff rates and standing charges down. Compare this to the best single rate price. Even do an energy comparison to show the difference. You will have to calculate yours manually. This should go in your favour. You could even compare it to the best E7 tariff.

On the plus side, we are entering spring summer. As Carrot07 says, turn the underfloor heating off at the consumer unit it once it gets warm enough. You then have seven months to consider moving elsewhere before autumn/winter arrives.