help /advice re electric bill

marc3

I have been asked to assist/look into a distant elderely relatives electric bill.

On the face of it-it looks crazy ,but my knowledge is limited-and i don't live local to the person to see exactly whats going on.

Has wood burner for central heating-but elderly-so not practical to get the 'logs' (you can probably use artificial logs which maybe i need to look into )

However-currently using all electric for heating and hot water.

no too sure whats going on re Boiler for water, but lets assume its on fairly constant .
Heating is by 4 electric fires-2 only rarely on
one on maybe 50% of time quite low .
one on constant at medium level.

its a 7 room property-quite large-but only heating/using 3/4 of the rooms, but obviously the heat generated is also dissipating into the other cooler rooms ,so i guess thats using a bit

Its not cold in property, but not like an oven either-and person is elderly-so needs a reasonable amount of heat,and in fairness-from my limited visits-has got it about right

that given-electric bills in winter months are a consistent £310 to £340 a MONTH
seems crazy to me.
owner is not short of a penny-so has been paying-but that seems stupid .

EON-the supplier -assure me -in a nice way- its correct and there is a smart reader to give them 'actuals'.
also says she is on best fixed rate tariff with them.
they are to be fair trying to be helpful /nice ,but in practice their help /assistance is limited,and its not my field of expertise

they may be right that bills are correct-i simply have no idea, but does seems ridiculous.

i am trying to find out whats using the money-and going forward-how bills can be substantially reduced

Its not really my field of expertise, but i am looking to find a rough guide as to how much an electric fire would use in those circumstance-say on 18 hours a day on medium setting-and boiler on most of time.

I am trying to find someone with expertise in the matter (nottingham area ) but can't locate anyone.
just get referred to citizens advice and age uk-who whilst well meaning-in practice can't help.

I need to find someone who can help me direct get to bottom of it,and or get a bit of advice/info from anyone on here who knows what they are talking about.
i can give fluffy advice/answers, but need someone who really is an expert to 'dig deep'

any assistance to help me in turn help this elderly lady appreciated.

thank you

CashStrapped

First you need to find out how much they are using annually in KWH

As they have a smart meter, they should be able to log on to their account and see their bill history.

Either the account online or the paper bills (if they get them) should give a rough indication of annual use. It should be pretty accurate, but depends on how long they have had a smart meter.

For a property heated by electric, one would expect it to be in the range of 5000- 8000kwh for someone living alone and not using too many devices. It can be higher and it can be lower as it depends on the individual.

If there is not a smart meter, you need to go through their bill history noting down the meter readings and the dates they were taken. Ideally you want to go back a year or so.

Then, look for two meter readings which are a year apart and the difference between the two will be their annual use.

---

Next you have to consider their set-up.

You say wood burner for central heating. Like a back boiler? Do you mean that they have radiators in the house similar to central heating, but they do not use them? Is there a model number for the wood burner?

---

If they are using electric radiators to heat the property, then this will always be expensive. It sounds like they are on a single rate tariff, using on demand electric heaters. This is an expensive way to heat a property. But, if there is no alternative (you need to clarify how the wood burner operates) then you have to make do with what you have.

----

My starting point would be to

1) Find out the annual use in KWH for electric
2) Work out what the wood burner is and how it operates
3) Confirm there is no other means of heat/hot water

4) Once you have the annual use in KWH, use a comparison site and compare against the current tariff they are on. It may be very uncompetitive. If you switch the saving may be worth it.

5) Do be aware, if it is a version 1 smart meter (smets1) if they switch away from the supplier that supplied it, it may become a normal (non-smart) meter again.

Robin9

Things like one-bar fires are expensive - 18 hrs x 1 kw is 18kwh at about 12p is £2 a day. So with the second heater on 50% costing another £1. That's £100 a month

An immersion heater - in a modern tank even on all the time will be running on a thermosat - will be less than a £1

House_Martin

If the property is all electric then it should have an Eco 7 meter.
Eon now use a smart meter which can record in Eco 7, the Secure Liberty 100. It has a small keyboard on the meter. Button 6 will show the day/night readings. I would expect Eons billing to be correct using this meter on Eco 7.
If you get access to the property have a look at the meter if possible. It could have an older smart meter which is now in dumb mode.
There is a possibility that the day/night readings have been reversed because even using electric fires those bills look ridiculous.
I would look to be switching from Eon to Iresa Energy and their Eco 7 tariff, probably the best Eco 7 rates in the UK so have a look on Uswitch after getting the annual use from Eon( with the percentage of the night rate usage ) to get a very accurate monthly direct debit

macman

Why do you suggest an E7 meter? The lady is using no less than 4 electric fires, and on E7 these will cost vastly more than a single rate tariff to run, as most of the usage will be during peak rate hours.
E7 is not usually appropriate for an all electric house unless it also has NSH's, which this does not.
Agree that the OP needs to post annual kWh figures, as no one can give any meaningful advice without this basic info. £££'s per month tell us nothing.
PS: what is the insulation like?

marc3

thanks for help/advice .

I'm just fresh into this and i guess looking for a quick fix so i can be seen to be helping quickly.

i guess i need to slow down and do it 'properly.

for interest-i do have latest invoice/bill -monthly bill :

which PROJECTS -day usage -11672 kwh
night -3640 kwh

bill says in feb-used 74.3 kwh PER DAY

not really studied it in detail-but it would make sense for the electric fires to be on during day ,and so fairly high daytime usage-so that bit seems without investigation-prob correct tom me :

but even so-in the winter months £330 per month-seems ridiculous to me -but i just don't know.

CashStrapped

Wow, and there is the source of the issue.....

They are using over 15,000kwh per year based on that projection. Even for a large all electric property, this is in the high band of use.

Based on what you said in previous posts, they appear to be using a lot more than 2 small electric heaters.

You have to clarify how accurate that 15,300kwh figure is.

Are they being billed on an E7 tariff? A day rate and a night rate? Or is there just one tariff?

---

To Explain.....

There are generally two types of all electric property.

Ones that use a single rate tariff and use instant use electric heaters (they heat up as soon as you turn them on at whatever time of day). This is an expensive way to heat an all electric property, but sometimes the only option available.

Then you have an E7 set-up with storage heaters.

These use special heaters which only come on at night and store the heat inside large hidden bricks. Because they charge-up the bricks at night when demand is low, the price for the electric is cheaper at this time.

So with an E7 tariff you have two rates of electricity. A day rate (expensive) and a night rate (cheap).

The idea is that the person using an E7 set-up will use the majority (over 50%) of their annual use on the cheaper rate.

---

In your instance they seem to be using the set-up in the worst way possible.

Not only is their electricity use very high (15,000kwh) but they have an E7 meter and that indicates they are using only 23% of it on the night rate.

This means a vast majority of their use is on the super expensive day rate (which is more expensive than a single rate tariff).

----

So, first you need to clarify from the bills:

1) Is that annual figure accurate.
1a) Are they being charged at two rates on their bill
2) Do they actually have storage heaters installed but they do not use. These are large radiators attached to the wall with two dials that say input and output.
3) If so why arn't they using them!

4) IF they have no storage heaters, but are on an E7 tariff with two rates, you need to use their annual use total (15,300kwh) and do a comparison for the best single rate tariff for that amount. Compare this to the best E7 tariff, but based on the low night use of 3640kwh, I think a single rate will beat it.

Robin9

Three things to do

1) Check that your relative (I assume over 65) is receiving the £200 heating allowance in their bank

2) If it has been applied for the Warm Home Grant of £140 which is a credit against their electricity account. Assuming that your relative receives pension credit and that it has actually been applied fro

3) Put your relatives consumption into a comparison site - ideally two actual readings 12 months apart - if not use the predicted readings. Do your own calculations with the tariff details given and ignore the headline saving figure. Your relative may be on Edf's best tariff which may not the best available.

BooJewels

CashStrapped wrote: »

4) IF they have no storage heaters, but are on an E7 tariff with two rates, you need to use their annual use total (15,300kwh) and do a comparison for the best single rate tariff for that amount. Compare this to the best E7 tariff, but based on the low night use of 3640kwh, I think a single rate will beat it.

I just plugged 15312kWh into my spreadsheet - for a year, with standing charge and 5% VAT, on my own tariff, that gives rise to an annual spend of £2054, which is averaged to £171/month - I wonder how that compares to the actual annual spend, considering the OP has only given numbers for winter months.

Maybe investing in some of the compacted fuel bricks for the burner might work out cheaper for cold months, if someone can buy them and store them nearby inside for her? We do this for my Dad and pile a couple of weeks worth of coal and logs near the fire when we visit.

House_Martin

macman wrote: »

Why do you suggest an E7 meter? The lady is using no less than 4 electric fires, and on E7 these will cost vastly more than a single rate tariff to run, as most of the usage will be during peak rate hours.
E7 is not usually appropriate for an all electric house unless it also has NSH's, which this does not.
Agree that the OP needs to post annual kWh figures, as no one can give any meaningful advice without this basic info. £££'s per month tell us nothing.
PS: what is the insulation like?

You may have hit on the answer macman but I don`t think you are up to scratch on current Eco 7 tariffs with the cheaper suppliers Iresa Energy at 11.5p day, 8 p night and 21 p daily charge ( S. Yorks area rates ) is a no brainer. Although its an all electric property with an Eco 7 meter it sounds like the NSH are now not in use or removed, but they are being billed a day rate for all their heating which will be dreadful with some suppliers tariffs on day rate.
It would be better to get the NSH back in use if they are still connected or even buying some new ones.
p.s. just noticed that Iresa Energy are now banned again by OFGEM from taking on new customers, but this happened a few months ago and did nt last too long. They are very popular and no wonder with such low Eco 7 rates with their day rate cheaper than nearly all single rate tariffs.
The next cheapest is Isupplyenergy at 12.5 p day . 8.5 p night and 21 dsc which would still beat nearly all single rate tariffs on fixed deals

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

marc3 wrote: »

I have been asked to assist/look into a distant elderely relatives electric bill.

On the face of it-it looks crazy ,but my knowledge is limited-and i don't live local to the person to see exactly whats going on.

Has wood burner for central heating-but elderly-so not practical to get the 'logs' (you can probably use artificial logs which maybe i need to look into )

However-currently using all electric for heating and hot water.

no too sure whats going on re Boiler for water, but lets assume its on fairly constant .
Heating is by 4 electric fires-2 only rarely on
one on maybe 50% of time quite low .
one on constant at medium level.

its a 7 room property-quite large-but only heating/using 3/4 of the rooms, but obviously the heat generated is also dissipating into the other cooler rooms ,so i guess thats using a bit

Its not cold in property, but not like an oven either-and person is elderly-so needs a reasonable amount of heat,and in fairness-from my limited visits-has got it about right

that given-electric bills in winter months are a consistent £310 to £340 a MONTH
seems crazy to me.
owner is not short of a penny-so has been paying-but that seems stupid .

EON-the supplier -assure me -in a nice way- its correct and there is a smart reader to give them 'actuals'.
also says she is on best fixed rate tariff with them.
they are to be fair trying to be helpful /nice ,but in practice their help /assistance is limited,and its not my field of expertise

they may be right that bills are correct-i simply have no idea, but does seems ridiculous.

i am trying to find out whats using the money-and going forward-how bills can be substantially reduced

Its not really my field of expertise, but i am looking to find a rough guide as to how much an electric fire would use in those circumstance-say on 18 hours a day on medium setting-and boiler on most of time.

I am trying to find someone with expertise in the matter (nottingham area ) but can't locate anyone.
just get referred to citizens advice and age uk-who whilst well meaning-in practice can't help.

I need to find someone who can help me direct get to bottom of it,and or get a bit of advice/info from anyone on here who knows what they are talking about.
i can give fluffy advice/answers, but need someone who really is an expert to 'dig deep'

any assistance to help me in turn help this elderly lady appreciated.

thank you

marc3 wrote: »

thanks for help/advice .

I'm just fresh into this and i guess looking for a quick fix so i can be seen to be helping quickly.

i guess i need to slow down and do it 'properly.

for interest-i do have latest invoice/bill -monthly bill :

which PROJECTS -day usage -11672 kwh
night -3640 kwh

bill says in feb-used 74.3 kwh PER DAY

not really studied it in detail-but it would make sense for the electric fires to be on during day ,and so fairly high daytime usage-so that bit seems without investigation-prob correct tom me :

but even so-in the winter months £330 per month-seems ridiculous to me -but i just don't know.

Hello marc3 and already some excellent advice on here. Thanks all. Thought I'd confirm a couple of things and add a bit more.

It looks as though past bills are accurate as they're based on actual meter readings. As CashStrapped says, see how much electricity is being used each year. Pop these details on to the independent Price Comparison sites. These will show the tariffs available over the whole market.

See if the Fixed Tariff you mention is Economy 7 or single rate. With us, even if there's an Economy 7 meter, customers can still go on to a single rate tariff. No need to change the meter. We add the day and night usage together and charge it all at the one rate. To benefit from Economy 7 prices, a significant amount of electricity needs to be used during the cheaper off peak period at night. The actual amount depends on the region and tariff.

Given the figures quoted, I suspect a single rate tariff will be better for your relative. If this is the case and provided the account is registered with our website, the tariff can be switched to single rate through the online account immediately.

Some of our Fixed Tariffs have exit fees for changing supplier outside of the renewal period (49 calendar days before the tariff end date until 20 working days after). Something to be aware of if a new supplier is the preferred option. If inside the window, exit fees are waived.

How does your relative pay for the electricity? Customers paying with a Monthly Direct Debit have lower daily standing charges. Saves about £45 per fuel per year when compared with other payment methods.

Make sure they're on our Priority Services Register. This is a record of any vulnerability or disability in a household. It's also a means by which we're able to help eligible customers with energy saving stuff like loft and cavity wall insulation. There's more information about this as well as other ways to save money by saving energy on our website.

As Robin9 says, is your relative eligible for Warm Home Discount? This is a payment given to help with winter bills. Last year it was worth £140. If they are, they can apply for the 2018/19 scheme through our website now.

Sorry to ramble on marc3 but hope it's of some interest.

Malc