Should I just give in and pay (details in post)

Beehj84

I have in my hands a letter from Civil Enforcement LTD stating "despite various communications your debt remains outstanding" ... and notifying that they're instructing 3rd party collection agents etc. Back story:

So stupidly I appealed to the company when I received the original charge, then went onto the POPLA appeal. I had already admitted to driving the car - I provided evidence of what happened (couldn't reach their phone service to pay despite multiple call attempts, called and got through later and paid full daily amount of £2.50 ... apparently it was my responsibility to leave and use other location due to not being able to pay) ... denied on multiple grounds, they cited that popular Beavis court case and a wealth of evidence really just showing that I was in the car park and that other people were able to pay at the same time so it's supposedly my fault yada yada yada.

Anyway, I just ignored them after that. Figured I would go to court and have my say at the very least. I'm indignant at their actions. They're absolute thieving crooks, scum of the earth. I can't believe they manage to sleep at night.

They lost nothing, received full payment from me each time I've used the carpark (I've even paid one of their £60 fines in the past before learning of this resource simply because I made the payment 25 mins late after arriving - forgetting due to an incoming phone call).

So I'm at the end of my tether ... I wish I could just go to court with them tomorrow and duke it out. I don't think Beavis applies at all to the situation - the car park is always half empty, by a railway line, and has a flat daily rate of £2.50 which I always paid. They're fundamentally different scenarios. Additionally, the company lost nothing, in any capacity. It's purely predatory.

Unfortunately I'm also about to move house with a new mortgage and I don't want any of this to come back and bite me. So I'm thinking of just paying the fine on a monthly payment basis and being done with it. Lesson learned. I'll never, ever, ever use them again and should really send them a nice package full of doggy excrement through the mail to say thanks.

I will be writing complaints in every place I can find, and will be appealing to all political sources to reign in these malicious gutter scum.

But have I screwed up my potential to win the case, and should I just pay it now? It's gone up to £140 ...

If I'm going to pay, I need to pay today. £11 per month for 12 months? It sucks but it'll be over with eventually. My guts just turn and wrench in response to the idea of giving these trashy morally bankrupt sharks even a cent.

Help! What should I do?

KeithP

Beehj84 wrote: »

Help! What should I do?

You should not pay.

There have been many CEL claims recently and every singly one on here that has submitted a half decent defence has found the case discontinued before any hearing.

Ignore all the debt collector's letters.

When you receive a Letter Before Claim or official court papers the post again on this thread for further guidance.

Nothing will happen to affect any mortgage application.
That can only happen after a court case has taken place, and you have lost that case, and you haven't paid what the judge instructs in the time allowed.

But there will be no court case if you heed the advice offered here.

If you move before this is resolved, you must make sure that CEL get your new address details to ensure that you don't get a default judgement against you without your knowledge and without the opportunity to defend yourself.

Have a read of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to better understand the game you are now caught up in.

Beehj84

KeithP wrote: »

You should not pay.

There have been many CEL claims recently and every singly one on here that has submitted a half decent defence has found the case discontinued before any hearing.

Thank you kindly for all of the information. That reflects my impression I got generally from this site.

My single biggest reservation is that I've admitted to being the driver in this case. Are you sure that doesn't crush my potential to win the case in court?

Cheers

KeithP

Beehj84 wrote: »

Thank you kindly for all of the information. That reflects my impression I got generally from this site.

My single biggest reservation is that I've admitted to being the driver in this case. Are you sure that doesn't crush my potential to win the case in court?

Cheers

I'll say it again... there will be no court hearing.

CEL will push right up to the wire, put the experience here is that they will discontinue if there is a good defence. There will be a good defence if you follow what others have done.

Of course there are no guarantees.
Even if in the extremely unlikely case it went to court and you lost, then the cost to you would probably be not much more than CEL are now asking for.

But who's talking about losing?

Beehj84

But I've already submitted, been through, and lost the initial appeal and the POPLA appeal though (because I assumed any semblance of humanity, logic, and reasonability in the process).

I'm worried that there aren't any more places for my defense until arriving in court.

Of course, I'm at this point happy to go to court and even to lose (presuming the costs are the same at this point) PURELY to cost CEL money in the process of trying to wrangle more money out from me.

By the by ... am I right in thinking that the POPLA appeal process is basically a sham, that unless you submit an air tight defense either refusing to acknowledge the driver or proving that signs weren't visible, they'll basically always deny your appeal? I read somewhere that the board behind the appeal process are paid for by the parking companies effectively. How is that impartial therefore legal?

KeithP

We've not seen your PoPLA appeal so it is impossible to say why it failed.

Sorry, I cannot offer any greater assurance, but I urge you to wait for others to comment before paying anything to anyone.

You say you need to pay today. Why is that?
You can pay at anytime up until actually going into any hearing.


But I really cannot understand why you would want to pay anything before a judge orders it.

Beehj84

The POPLA failed because, IIRC, they proved that other people were able to call when I was unable to (I showed 7 attempts at calling their service not working), that I was the driver (which I admitted), and they said that if I was unable to pay within the designated time period it was therefore my responsibility to move the car elsewhere.

I assumed that because the phone charge system appeared down to me, and I paid in full a couple hours later, that would suffice, or at least someone would see that there is literally no logic in me concocting this elaborate story to not pay £2.50 for a couple hours before doing so. An amount that I had been paying 3-4 times per week for months for the job.

That's not the point though really ... my main concern is that I have no more options until going to court to respond and that I might lose in court on technicalities (as opposed to getting a reasonable judge who would see that I paid the full amount, as soon as I could, and there's literally no reason for me to have concocted such a scheme to not pay a pittance for 2 hours, and that the company suffered literally zero losses in the process).

I was saying that I needed to pay today because tomorrow is 14 days after the latest letter was dated, after which the 3rd party collections start and apparently prices increase again. So just paying it at this point is like a couple nice pints per month (£11.40 or whatever) for a year in direct debit and I can forget about it all. But in a few days that price could be higher, and so on.

It's like the last line in the sand before wholly committing to taking it to court and wherever it ends up.

KeithP

Post #4 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread describes in the greatest detail how to cope with debt collectors letters.

They have absolutely no power. They cannot enforce anything. All they do is threaten and bully. Yes they put the cost up, but they cannot force anything.

It will eventually get handed back to CEL when the debt collector gives up.

Be brave. Be strong.

The_Deep

It is far easier tio convince a judge that they are bent than PoPLA. They wll know this and are unlikely to let it get in front of a judge, read some of these

https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=hp&ei=Rja1Wr2dAoeJmgWrgaawDA&q=cel+Parking+prankster&oq=cel+Parking+prankster&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0.1005.10797.0.14958.21.21.0.0.0.0.183.3230.0j21.21.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.21.3215...0i131k1j0i10k1j0i22i30k1j0i22i10i30k1.0.e6c8kBFvS8Y

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.

Beehj84

Thank you very much to both of you.

I'm impressed with this forum and the immense public service to be found here. You're all fine people for giving your time to this cause.

I'm going to hold strong. I'm not giving these crooks a dime unless I have to. (excuse the Americanism, I lived there for a while - don't hold it against me).

Question:

Is it worth me writing them a letter stating that I have no intention of paying their request for undeserved free money, and that they shouldn't waste their time or money on collections fees, that I would be quite happy to go before a Judge at the nearest convenience, and have every intention of taking it to that level?

Is there any legal value in such a letter to them?

Or should I just vindictively let them keep spending money.

I will 100% be complaining in the most robust terms to any and all MPs who will listen. It's on the top of my to-do list now.

Thanks again - you're my new heroes today!

KeithP

It is my opinion, and that of many others on here, that you should now ignore everything unless or until you receive either a Letter Of Claim or official court papers.

If or when that happens, post again on this same thread for further guidance if you need it.

Meanwhile, it is well worth watching that video that The Deep linked to.