Payment in advance to payment in arrears HELP!!

xxbex101

Hi, so myself and my colleagues really need some help and advice please!
There is a group of 15 or so of us who have worked for our employer for numerous years ranging from 12-30 years service. The new management team have said as we are paid in advance as were originally contracted in advance, then want to change to pay us in arrears to fit in line with newer employees. Basically they have asked us each to pay back 1 months salary (which is before tax and NI are taken out), if we do not come to an agreement then they will not pay us for 1 month to 'even things out'.
Firstly we want to know if legally they are allowed to do this? Is it correct we should pay back the money before tax, as would that mean we have effectively paid this twice?
Also, they have been unable to show any of us proof that we were originally paid in advance, and that all subsequent pay rises have also been paid in advance, which I do not believe to be true.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks

TadleyBaggie

Happen to me in the 80's, the company's solution was to "loan" each employee an amount equal to their monthly income after tax. The loan was to be interest free and only repayable when employment ended.

After several senior employees kicked up a fuss about this, the company backed down and instead just gave each employee a lump sum (grossed up) for the missing salary period and wrote it off.

Xbigman

Expecting employees to go a month without pay is ridiculous. If you are in a union they should be all over this. If you're not in a union then join one. Unions don't generally take on problems that existed prior to membership but if a number of you join up they will usually get involved.

First off, what does your contract say. If you don't have a copy then get one. Also confirm your date of first employment. Does any of you have your first payslips? Linked to your first date of employment that could confirm whether you are paid in advance or not. If no payslips can you (or the others) get bank statements back that far. How about old P60's. Finding something in writing to confirm the current pay situation is vital.

If you can prove you are not paid in advance then take it from there. If you can't prove it, or it turns out you are in fact paid in advance then you need to negotiate the best deal you can. Drop a weeks pay a year for 4 years, a loan, split the difference and go two weeks arrears and two in advance, etc. Anything would help.


Darren


PS. How are pay rises implemented? Do you get them a month before newer staff? That might help indicate your payment status. If it turns out you are paid in advance but you lost a months pay rise each year then ask for the arrears they would owe you.

getmore4less

you need to be very clear what is going on.

the key information iyou need to get clarified
pay period - the dates that make up a period of pay, typicaly this will be a week or month either calendar of beween a fixed set of dates like 15th-14th

pay day - the day a pay period i paid(this may be variable like last Friday.


It is very unusual to be paid a full month in advance, many get paid partly in advance like paid before the end of a month for a calendar month.

xxbex101

Hi all, thanks for reply. A few people have asked for proof we were initially paid up front something our employer cant seem to provide us with. Due to the amount of time passed, at least 12 years no one has original pay slips.
We are also trying to ask for proof that any wages increases have been paid in advance as none of us believe this to be the case.
We are paid on 27th of the month for the full following month, so will be paid 27th Match for the whole of April, so we've been told.
Unfortunately none of us are in a union, not sure how many people would be looking at joining but I will definitely ask everyone.
Again thanks for all of your help!

Manxman_in_exile

getmore4less wrote: »

you need to be very clear what is going on.

the key information iyou need to get clarified
pay period - the dates that make up a period of pay, typicaly this will be a week or month either calendar of beween a fixed set of dates like 15th-14th

pay day - the day a pay period i paid(this may be variable like last Friday.


It is very unusual to be paid a full month in advance, many get paid partly in advance like paid before the end of a month for a calendar month.

Yes. I've not heard of many salaried employees being paid a month in advance. (Sounds a very stupid practice for an employer! Oh! maybe new management have just realised!)


OP - you and/or your colleagues really need to check your employment contracts and what they say about payment. If old bank statements and payslips can be dug out they may be helpful. But you all probably can't find them.


So you could ask your employer for "proof" that you've been paid in advance, which presumably they have as they are telling you that you've been paid in advance.


But is that a bit risky for one months pay?

Xbigman

Do you know anyone who might have been paid in advance who has left?
Surely over the years you would of heard howls of anguish when peoples last pay packet was empty?



Darren

ReadingTim

Yes, it's legal and no, there's nothing you can do to stop it.

However, a good employer should realise that asking staff to (essentially) defer being paid for a month isn't very realistic, and is likely to cause many people problems to a greater or lesser extent - everyone has bills to pay - and should have made some sort of provision to help staff bridge that gap, or at least offer some help for those who might need it.

However, this is also probably a good wake-up call for you too - if there's absolutely no way you can't survive a single month without pay, then you're teetering on the edge of a pretty slippery slope downwards, and it might be good to start some sort of emergency fund to stop you falling should the worst happen...

Masomnia

Changing payment arrangements is a breach of contract if you don't consent, and if they deduct money without your consent it could well be an unlawful deduction from wages.

IMHO the onus is on them to prove what the arrangement is, and if they want to move you on to worse terms then what is in it for you?