VELCRO VERO listing removal

KRDmum

Yesterday I got an email notification that a pair of child's used Timberland trainers that I was selling (toddler size selling for less that a tenner) was removed due to VERO breach. I am currently selling a few pairs, that my children have outgrown and was annoyed/curious why only one listing has been pulled, as I didn't think that Timberland was part of VERO.

When I called ebay, to my huge surprise it wasn't the Timberland but a VELCRO company that reported my listing, because there was a word 'velcro fastening' in decryption. Upon ebay's suggestion, I appealed and got this in return:

Thank you for your e-mail concerning your marketplace auction. It was reported due to your improper use of our VELCRO® trademark. International trademark laws require an owner of a mark to strictly control its use. Please note that our trademark VELCRO® may be used only to identify genuine VELCRO® brand hook and loop fasteners. Furthermore, products that incorporate VELCRO® brand fasteners are not entitled to use the mark to identify the product itself. For example, patches that use VELCRO® brand fasteners are not “VELCRO Patches” – rather they are “patches with VELCRO® brand fasteners.” As we do not have any way of confirming whether the fasteners used in your offered products are genuine VELCRO® brand fasteners, we must request that you remove all use of the VELCRO® mark from your auction listings. If you do not want your auctions to be removed in the future, please remove the VELCRO® mark from your auction listing, and instead use the functional terms: fasteners, hook and loop fasteners or touch fastener to refer to the type of closure or fastener in your product. For further information, please visit our About Me Vero page at http://vero.ebay.com/vero/velcro under “Velcro Companies” and visit our About the VELCRO® Brand Trademark video tutorial at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV-qNmlaOvo. Please note that we do not single out any one auction or seller. We scan marketplaces worldwide on a daily basis for infringing uses of the VELCRO® trademark, and file complaints against those auctions as they come up in our scans. Also note, that as a matter of policy, we will not withdraw complaints against auctions once filed. Thank you. Legal Department Velcro Group Corporation

My question is how would a private seller who is trying to do a clear out know about this? (ok I obviously do now). How would I know whether Timberland use proper "velcro' or not? As a parent, you look for velcro fastening, you don't really talk about 'hook and loop'? I'm just trying to prevent similar instances in the future, when you use an every day word then find out that because of this you have an infringement? Thanks

RFW

Velcro are one of the toughest rights protectors.

I was at an auction a while ago that wasn't online anywhere. They were selling quite a lot of Velcro and non-velcro branded similar goods. The auction were called by Velcro's legal team to ask them to take the lots down that were called Velcro but didn't just contain it.

The auctioneer was more confused about how they had even found it.

I've known other similar things from them.

It's pretty much in common use now so I doubt most members of the public know it's even a brand name.

As far as Ebay is concerned you just have to nod or shake your head and move on. When I was in the US for a while I submitted a rather innocent listing that kept getting pulled automatically and no one could tell me why. It was before the days of infringement so I just kept changing words until it was accepted.

soolin

I belong to a lot of eBay forums and groups and Velcro is one of the commonest reasons for a very warning at the moment especially in the US. Be careful of trying to get round the wording by being clever, although in the US 'hook and loop' fastening appears to be OK.

Even if it's genuine Velcro, don't use the word.

mrcol1000

You can't really in cases like this. There must be tons of listings who use the word Velcro. I am an experienced business seller and I really would have not thought twice to use the word Velcro to described how trainers fastened.

It'd be interesting to know why yours was taken off when a quick search shows loads of listings with Velcro listed as the fastening when its doubtful its actual Velcro. Especially the cheap pairs of shoes from China.

The only good thing is that you won't lose out because of this, as long as you don't try again when after its been removed once.

soolin

mrcol1000 wrote: »

You can't really in cases like this. There must be tons of listings who use the word Velcro. I am an experienced business seller and I really would have not thought twice to use the word Velcro to described how trainers fastened.

It'd be interesting to know why yours was taken off when a quick search shows loads of listings with Velcro listed as the fastening when its doubtful its actual Velcro. Especially the cheap pairs of shoes from China.

The only good thing is that you won't lose out because of this, as long as you don't try again when after its been removed once.

OP has lost out to some extent though as she now has a warning on her account, and no idea how long it stays there for. Looking at other forums, another warning for any infringement in the next few months could see OP restricted.

KRDmum

RFW wrote: »

It's pretty much in common use now so I doubt most members of the public know it's even a brand name.

As far as Ebay is concerned you just have to nod or shake your head and move on. When I was in the US for a while I submitted a rather innocent listing that kept getting pulled automatically and no one could tell me why. It was before the days of infringement so I just kept changing words until it was accepted.

RFW, until yesterday afternoon, I didn't know it was a brand name either! I actually laughed out loud during our conversation with Ebay when it eventually 'hit' me that it was a Velcro and not Timberland that had issue with my listing. Luckily, the person was quite understanding and almost agreed with me that it was an innocent mistake and gave me steps for an appeal to VELCRO. The response above was their answer. I have now appealed to ebay to reinstate my listing, so that I can change my wording, as it completely varnished from my list of unsold items.

F&L

I recently listed a used kids onesie on my private account that my kids had outgrown. When I pressed submit a warning came up about "onesie" being a trademark owned by a company I'd never heard of and ebay suggested alternative names that could be used such as jumpsuit. Did anything similar come up when you used velcro as if ebay are warning users about the onesie term, you'd think they'd do the same with velcro.

KRDmum

F&L wrote: »

I recently listed a used kids onesie on my private account that my kids had outgrown. When I pressed submit a warning came up about "onesie" being a trademark owned by a company I'd never heard of and ebay suggested alternative names that could be used such as jumpsuit. Did anything similar come up when you used velcro as if ebay are warning users about the onesie term, you'd think they'd do the same with velcro.

Nothing like that came up and this was in fact an old listing that I just kept re-listing, as they are more summer trainers and it's not a 'season' for them just yet. Didn't know this about a 'onesie' either. I'm sure I sold one last year and I listed it as a Minnie Mouse Onesie. Crickey, I'm glad I wasn't pulled up for using words onesie nor Minnie Mouse!

KRDmum

soolin wrote: »

I belong to a lot of eBay forums and groups and Velcro is one of the commonest reasons for a very warning at the moment especially in the US. Be careful of trying to get round the wording by being clever, although in the US 'hook and loop' fastening appears to be OK.

Even if it's genuine Velcro, don't use the word.

Thank you Soolin, I'm happy to use 'hoop and loop' in description, although as a buyer, I would've never searched for 'hoop and loop trainers' :wall:

KRDmum

mrcol1000 wrote: »

You can't really in cases like this. There must be tons of listings who use the word Velcro. I am an experienced business seller and I really would have not thought twice to use the word Velcro to described how trainers fastened.

It'd be interesting to know why yours was taken off when a quick search shows loads of listings with Velcro listed as the fastening when its doubtful its actual Velcro. Especially the cheap pairs of shoes from China.

The only good thing is that you won't lose out because of this, as long as you don't try again when after its been removed once.

I know, beats me why it has been taken down now. This was an old listing that has been re-listead a number of times before, so no idea what triggered the complain this time.

The most annoying thing is, that the listing has been taken down completely, it's not even in my unsold items list, so I have to get them down from the loft, take pictures, re-write the description etc all over again. For all this hassle, I think I'll pass them onto a friend...

KRDmum

For this lovely reply from ebay this evening, I feel much better now and almost feel compassion from ebay staff.

''Thank you for your messages to eBay's VeRO program.

I am glad that the Velcro company sent you a response to explain their concerns with your listing. They report a few thousand listings to eBay every month for the same concern, so you certainly are not the only seller who isn't aware that the term "Velcro" is a trademark term for hook and loop tape (also called rip tape).

Due to the legal nature of Velcro's report, we are not able to reinstate your listing to the site unless they specifically contact us and let us know it's okay. However, the information they provided to you does indicate that you can go ahead and relist in a new listings as long as you do not include their trademark in your listing.


To make this easier for you, I have attached copies of your listing photos and your listing description. You can save this information and then use it to relist without having to retake all of your photos.

Please be sure that your new listing does not include the term "Velcro" in it to avoid the same issue from happening again in the future. As I mentioned above, most sellers use the terms "rip tape" or "hook and loop" tape instead.


I hope this helps make the relisting process as easy as possible for you. We really appreciate your time and attention to this matter.''